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PostSubject: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 9:46 am

The President's speech:

Good evening, everybody. Tonight, after nearly 100 years of talk and frustration, after decades of trying, and a year of sustained effort and debate, the United States Congress finally declared that America's workers and America's families and America's small businesses deserve the security of knowing that here, in this country, neither illness nor accident should endanger the dreams they've worked a lifetime to achieve.

Tonight, at a time when the pundits said it was no longer possible, we rose above the weight of our politics. We pushed back on the undue influence of special interests. We didn't give in to mistrust or to cynicism or to fear. Instead, we proved that we are still a people capable of doing big things and tackling our biggest challenges. We proved that this government — a government of the people and by the people — still works for the people.

I want to thank every member of Congress who stood up tonight with courage and conviction to make
health care reform a reality. And I know this wasn't an easy vote for a lot of people. But it was the right vote. I want to thank Speaker Nancy Pelosi for her extraordinary leadership, and Majority Leader Steny Hoyer and Majority Whip Jim Clyburn for their commitment to getting the job done. I want to thank my outstanding Vice President, Joe Biden, and my wonderful Secretary of Health and Human Services, Kathleen Sebelius, for their fantastic work on this issue. I want to thank the many staffers in Congress, and my own incredible staff in the White House, who have worked tirelessly over the past year with Americans of all walks of life to forge a reform package finally worthy of the people we were sent here to serve.

Today's vote answers the dreams of so many who have fought for this reform. To every unsung American who took the time to sit down and write a letter or type out an e-mail hoping your voice would be heard — it has been heard tonight. To the untold numbers who knocked on doors and made phone calls, who organized and mobilized out of a firm conviction that change in this country comes not from the top down, but from the bottom up — let me reaffirm that conviction: This moment is possible because of you.

Most importantly, today's vote answers the prayers of every American who has hoped deeply for something to be done about a health care system that works for insurance companies, but not for ordinary people. For most Americans, this debate has never been about abstractions, the fight between right and left, Republican and Democrat — it's always been about something far more personal. It's about every American who knows the shock of opening an envelope to see that their premiums just shot up again when times are already tough enough. It's about every parent who knows the desperation of trying to cover a child with a chronic illness only to be told "no" again and again and again. It's about every small business owner forced to choose between insuring employees and staying open for business. They are why we committed ourselves to this cause.

Tonight's vote is not a victory for any one party — it's a victory for them. It's a victory for the American people. And it's a victory for common sense.

Now, it probably goes without saying that tonight's vote will give rise to a frenzy of instant analysis. There will be tallies of Washington winners and losers, predictions about what it means for
Democrats and Republicans, for my poll numbers, for my administration. But long after the debate fades away and the prognostication fades away and the dust settles, what will remain standing is not the government-run system some feared, or the status quo that serves the interests of the insurance industry, but a health care system that incorporates ideas from both parties — a system that works better for the American people.

If you have health insurance, this reform just gave you more control by reining in the worst excesses and abuses of the insurance industry with some of the toughest consumer protections this country has ever known — so that you are actually getting what you pay for.

If you don't have insurance, this reform gives you a chance to be a part of a big purchasing pool that will give you choice and competition and cheaper prices for insurance. And it includes the largest health care tax cut for working families and small businesses in history — so that if you lose your job and you change jobs, start that new business, you'll finally be able to purchase quality, affordable care and the security and peace of mind that comes with it.

This reform is the right thing to do for our seniors. It makes Medicare stronger and more solvent, extending its life by almost a decade. And it's the right thing to do for our future. It will reduce our deficit by more than $100 billion over the next decade, and more than $1 trillion in the decade after that.

So this isn't radical reform. But it is major reform. This legislation will not fix everything that ails our health care system. But it moves us decisively in the right direction. This is what change looks like.

Now as momentous as this day is, it's not the end of this journey. On Tuesday, the Senate will take up revisions to this legislation that the House has embraced, and these are revisions that have strengthened this law and removed provisions that had no place in it. Some have predicted another siege of parliamentary maneuvering in order to delay adoption of these improvements. I hope that's not the case. It's time to bring this debate to a close and begin the hard work of implementing this reform properly on behalf of the American people. This year, and in years to come, we have a solemn responsibility to do it right.

Nor does this day represent the end of the work that faces our country. The work of revitalizing our economy goes on. The work of promoting private sector job creation goes on. The work of putting American families' dreams back within reach goes on. And we march on, with renewed confidence, energized by this victory on their behalf.

In the end, what this day represents is another stone firmly laid in the foundation of the American Dream. Tonight, we answered the call of history as so many generations of Americans have before us. When faced with crisis, we did not shrink from our challenge — we overcame it. We did not avoid our responsibility — we embraced it. We did not fear our future — we shaped it.

Thank you, God bless you, and may God bless the United States of America.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:53 am

Very pretty words.

Unfortunately, that's all they are.

This is no victory for America. But time will tell. I genuinely, truly, with all my heart, hope I'm wrong. I hope all his pretty words will mean something. Unfortunately, we live in a time where people are more excited about "making history" than in understanding that actions have consequences down the line.

He's good at making historical moments. But his plans can't work without bankrupting the middle class. His entire philosophy of wealth redistribution is so patently socialist that if this stands, we'll see losses of personal freedom and jobs that could forever change our country.

People thought Bush infringed upon our freedoms. They ain't seen nothing yet.

I won't say anything more, because frankly, I'm so disgusted by the path our country is on, it hurts to talk about it. This Kodak moment is going to hurt our country, you mark my words. I hope I'm wrong.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:27 pm

I'm sorry that you feel that way, Renee. I didn't post it to argue, but rather to celebrate!!!

I hardly find the President's speech merely "pretty words" since it is something he has worked very hard to make a reality.

The "middle class" is open to so many definitions depending on who you are talking with, so I am not sure how you are defining it when saying the health care plan will bankrupt the middle class. Personally, I don't see helping others less fortunate and government protection to provide a basic human need like health care to people who have been denied medical care because of their financial status as anything other than a benefit to our country as a whole. If the personal income/profits of insurance companies, pharmaceuticals, medical care providers (doctors) or others commonly viewed as the top end by anyone's defiition of upper class are impacted, I really don't see that as "socialism" or as a loss of personal freedom. I see it as something that has been long overdue. We are talking about human lives and the physical/mental/medical needs (not wants) of people.

I see this as a step toward the foundation of what America has always projected itself to be....a land of opportunity. If anything, I wish the plan was even more extensive and that it covered more people in more situations for more coverage than it does. So, I'm not disgusted by the path our country is on. Rather, I am encouraged by it as it reaffirms so much of what I have always seen our country capable of.

I know there are many who share Renee's opinions on this subject. I hope they will give things a chance and view the benefits of the plan from a perspective of those who will benefit from it healthwise rather than those it may hurt financially.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:53 pm

Cincy, who is the beautiful boy in your picture? He's so cute I can't hardly stand it!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:13 pm

yes cicny - that picture is amazingly beautiful !!!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:22 pm

Thanks! That is my youngest grandson, Aiden!! The picture is from when he was a ringbearer at a wedding.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 1:29 pm

He is a handsome boy!! He favors you a lot!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:02 pm

Back on topic.....Aiden IS a handsome and HEALTHY boy. You might say he is the picture of good health! Born is a hospital to a mother who had great prenatal care. Since his birth, he's had well checks, immunizations, doctors' care, prescriptions and all the benefits of the health care system. I can't help but wonder if he would look so healthy if his parents' economic situation had deprived him of that care.

A healthy nation is only as healthy as its most unhealthy child. Personal freedom should never trump common need.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 2:04 pm

Joe Biden made me cry last night, his face said so much. I only wish his good friend Ted Kennedy had lived to see last night. So many have worked so hard for this. I loved hearing John Dingell's pride in their accomplishment. After 50 years in Congress and his father before him working so hard to bring about Social Security and Dingell being the one to gavel in Medicare 45 years ago.
It is too bad the day had to be tainted by the Tea Baggers getting ugly and shouting homophobic and racial epithets at our lawmakers and the person who felt a need to yell "baby killer" at Bart Stupak, my goodness...the man is a life long Pro lifer.

Renee, this may not be a victory for you and many who feel the same, but at the same time, it is a huge victory for many. Democracy at work. It will mean life or untimely death for many Americans. I do think of this as a historic event in our country because of what is stands for, the careers and lives devoted to this accomplishment, what it means to so many who were for so long at the mercy of insurance companies for their very lives and the lives of their loved ones.
If we had stayed on the path we were on with health care skyrocketing each year, we would surely be bankrupting , at least, our middle class. We'll see where the new laws take us. We may be very pleasantly surprised.ht
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 3:45 pm

Speaking as someone who is *not* into politics, all my republican friends are certainly up in arms about this. I consider myself a democrat or middle of the road. Someone please tell me in layman's terms what this means so I can be informed too, instead of trying to understand my over-emotional republican friends right now. I just can't do it.

Help a girl out Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:10 pm

cincy wrote:
Thanks! That is my youngest grandson, Aiden!! The picture is from when he was a ringbearer at a wedding.

Cincy, he is just adorable!!! What a beautiful little boy! ht
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:36 pm

hdd CRICKETS CHIRPING
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 4:45 pm

I looked around to find something in simple terms Paula and haven't found it yet - I don't want to put it in my own words cause there is so much to really understand I will certainly screw up!

Also have to say, that because there are definitely two sides on this issue, the "facts" will likely be different depending which side you talk to.

I have to be honest and say that I am not 100% sure of how this will affect my family, but I have to say I am in favor of controlling insurance costs, having health care available for everyone (not just the poor but all children, seniors, etc.) I also believe that the passed bill, was a lesser/adjusted version of the original bill which was highly criticized.

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:38 pm

The whole thing makes me very nervous because, although one side is happy about it, the other side is outraged and unhappy about it.

I don't know how it will affect me as of yet, but I sure hope no one wants to f around with my health coverage.

Sorry, I still do not like Obama.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 5:58 pm

Renee wrote:
Very pretty words.

Unfortunately, that's all they are.

This is no victory for America. But time will tell. I genuinely, truly, with all my heart, hope I'm wrong. I hope all his pretty words will mean something. Unfortunately, we live in a time where people are more excited about "making history" than in understanding that actions have consequences down the line.

He's good at making historical moments. But his plans can't work without bankrupting the middle class. His entire philosophy of wealth redistribution is so patently socialist that if this stands, we'll see losses of personal freedom and jobs that could forever change our country.

People thought Bush infringed upon our freedoms. They ain't seen nothing yet.

I won't say anything more, because frankly, I'm so disgusted by the path our country is on, it hurts to talk about it. This Kodak moment is going to hurt our country, you mark my words. I hope I'm wrong.



I'm right there with you Renee. We ain't seen nothin yet. This is gonna be a nightmare of immense proportions. This vote was no victory in my opinion. I think we will see unbelievable protests against this and of course the Supreme Court will eventually see this.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:01 pm

Paulareenee wrote:
Speaking as someone who is *not* into politics, all my republican friends are certainly up in arms about this. I consider myself a democrat or middle of the road. Someone please tell me in layman's terms what this means so I can be informed too, instead of trying to understand my over-emotional republican friends right now. I just can't do it.

Help a girl out Shocked


Well its not just Republicans in this area up in arms. The best thing to do Paula is go read the bill. Then you won't have Democrat or Republican spin. Read it slowly. Your eyes will probably leave there sockets when your done.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 6:26 pm

The msn homepage has the plan broken down in layman's terms, paula. I'm like basket and don't want to mis-speak since it is a very complex piece of legislation. As basket states, it is a lesser/adjusted version than originally sought...that's why I said I think it could have gone further in many ways. But compromise was the only way to get the necessary votes...so be it.

I tend to look at these things in a broad sense and not how it will affect me individually....I figure I will be okay no matter what. But that doesn't mean I am uncaring or unfeeling for those who feel the law will affect them personally in an adverse way.

Rather than restate why I think it is an excellent piece of legislation, I'd like to know why some are fearful of it, think it is a bad thing, etc. But I do know that the Supreme Court can not overturn the law....it can only interpret it based upon cases brought before it and I'm having a hard time thinking of a situation where that might happen since disputes would likely be settled in state courts or lesser courts than the Supreme Court. Are there any concerns (other than financial ones already discussed) that are causing people to have problems with it? If so, keeping in mind that ALL laws infringe upon "personal freedoms" in one way or another, what are those concerns?
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:03 pm


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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:07 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
Try this:

[url=http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/?hpid=topnews
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/special/politics/what-health-bill-means-for-you/?hpid=topnews[/quote[/url]]

Thanks, basket. That is a great tool! I think it should take the fear factor out of a lot of minds!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:34 pm

Not sure how accurate or "approved" it is, but hopefully somewhat...

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 8:46 pm

Another resource I received in my email from a reliable source, but a Democratic source - just to make it clear:

10 THINGS EVERY AMERICAN SHOULD KNOW ABOUT HEALTH CARE REFORM

1. Once reform is fully implemented, over 95% of Americans will have health insurance coverage, including 32 million who are currently uninsured.2

2. Health insurance companies will no longer be allowed to deny people coverage because of preexisting conditions—or to drop coverage when people become sick.3

3. Just like members of Congress, individuals and small businesses who can't afford to purchase insurance on their own will be able to pool together and choose from a variety of competing plans with lower premiums.4

4. Reform will cut the federal budget deficit by $138 billion over the next ten years, and a whopping $1.2 trillion in the following ten years.5

5. Health care will be more affordable for families and small businesses thanks to new tax credits, subsidies, and other assistance—paid for largely by taxing insurance companies, drug companies, and the very wealthiest Americans.6

6. Seniors on Medicare will pay less for their prescription drugs because the legislation closes the "donut hole" gap in existing coverage.7

7. By reducing health care costs for employers, reform will create or save more than 2.5 million jobs over the next decade.8

8. Medicaid will be expanded to offer health insurance coverage to an additional 16 million low-income people.9

9. Instead of losing coverage after they leave home or graduate from college, young adults will be able to remain on their families' insurance plans until age 26.10

10. Community health centers would receive an additional $11 billion, doubling the number of patients who can be treated regardless of their insurance or ability to pay.11

To share this list with your friends using Facebook or Twitter, visit:

http://pol.moveon.org/healthcare/tenthings/?id=19504-10105269-eQumx_x&t=1

Sources:

1. Final vote results on motion to concur in Senate amendments to the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act, Clerk of the U.S. House of Representatives, March 21, 2010
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2010/roll165.xml

2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 11. "Affordable Health Care for America: Summary," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 18, 2010
http://wwwd.house.gov/akamaidocs/energycommerce/SUMMARY.pdf

4. "Insurance Companies Prosper, Families Suffer: Our Broken Health Insurance System," U.S. Department of Health and Human Services, Accessed March 22, 2010
http://healthreform.gov/reports/insuranceprospers/index.html

5. "Affordable Health Care for America: Health Insurance Reform at a Glance: Revenue Provisions," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 18, 2010
http://wwwd.house.gov/akamaidocs/energycommerce/REVENUE.pdf

8. "New Jobs Through Better Health Care," Center for American Progress, January 8, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=87402&id=19504-10105269-eQumx_x&t=2

9, 10. "Proposed Changes in the Final Health Care Bill," The New York Times, March 22, 2010
http://www.moveon.org/r?r=87403&id=19504-10105269-eQumx_x&t=3

11. "Affordable Health Care for America: Health Insurance Reform at a Glance: Addressing Health and Health Care Disparities," House Energy and Commerce Committee, March 20, 2010
http://docs.house.gov/energycommerce/DISPARITIES.pdf

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:19 pm

I don't have time to read the entire bill, nor do I care to. Sorry, but I just don't see how this is bad, based on the above facts.

Why is everybody so upset? Specifically.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 10:55 pm

More "brief" info - a video that talks about what would take effect soon and what would not go into effect until 2014. Also has conversation re: cons of the reform.

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/politics/2010/03/22/acosta.what.is.in.the.health.bill.cnn?hpt=T1

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Mon Mar 22, 2010 11:13 pm

I will say simply that I have lived in a country with socialized healthcare, and it DID NOT WORK. The facilities were antiquated, the care was frightening, and the people are going downhill with their lifestyle because the government is taking way too much of their income in taxes. They were desperate when I last visited and conversed with so many of them in different parts of the country.

I agree wholeheartedly with Renee. Sad, sad day for me.

However, I believe that Thomas Jefferson sums it up the best for me:


"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". -- Thomas Jefferson and also quoted by Jefferson "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government".
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 1:05 am

Hanapepe wrote:
I will say simply that I have lived in a country with socialized healthcare, and it DID NOT WORK. The facilities were antiquated, the care was frightening, and the people are going downhill with their lifestyle because the government is taking way too much of their income in taxes. They were desperate when I last visited and conversed with so many of them in different parts of the country.

I agree wholeheartedly with Renee. Sad, sad day for me.

However, I believe that Thomas Jefferson sums it up the best for me:


"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them". -- Thomas Jefferson and also quoted by Jefferson "My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government".


Ah yes......Thomas Jefferson…the utlimate philosophical anarchist. A brilliant man for and of his time, but also an ultimate master of contradiction, as evidenced by some of his other quotes:

Leave no authority existing not responsible to the people.

Money, not morality, is the principle commerce of civilized nations.(Say what?????)



It is neither wealth nor splendor; but tranquility and occupation which give you happiness.

Our greatest happiness does not depend on the condition of life in which chance has placed us, but is always the result of a good conscience, good health, occupation, and freedom in all just pursuits.

So confident am I in the intentions, as well as wisdom, of the government, that I shall always be satisfied that what is not done, either cannot, or ought not to be done.

The care of human life and happiness, and not their destruction, is the first and only object of good government.

The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield and government to gain ground.

Whenever the people are well-informed, they can be trusted with their own government.

I like the dreams of the future better than the history of the past.

It takes time to persuade men to do even what is for their own good.

Throw in a few “Yo, Dawg”s and Jefferson becomes as relevant as Randy Jackson.



Anyway……………..if you run the numbers on the Washington Post computation that basket posted, it is apparent that unless your personal income is more than $250,000 a year, there is not a lot of increased taxes involved (and not that much even then.) If your income is more than $250,000 a year, I think it is a pretty safe bet that you are not among the uninsured women, children and those with pre-existing conditions who benefit from universal health care. I would even venture to say that if you are a disabled person, your chances of even having a $250,000 annual income are pretty slim. (Of course, we know there are inspirational exceptions to that but that is very rare.)

So, have we become such a selfish nation that the degree and quality of health care is denied to those who likely need it most? If so, it really does contradict the most relevant statement ever made by Jefferson. The one regarding certain inalienable rights, not the least of which is an equal right to life. Take away an ill person’s equal entitlement to life, a healthy life not dependent upon whether they cn receive necessary medical care or are forced to live their life with a condition that could be fixed if only they had insurance …then the other two liberties Jefferson held most dear …. Liberty and the pursuit of happiness…have absolutely NO chance at all.
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