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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 5:49 pm

I took it as a protest that doctors are citizens too and shouldn't be required any more than anyone else to volunteer.
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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:36 pm

Yes, "required to volunteer" - funny play on words that I didn't realize I said!

That response was in regards to the fact that Morgan thought docs should volunteer their time. I actually see docs volunteering their time - and money etc. LOTS. But I work in a teaching hospital and sometimes there is a different mentality of the medical staff.

But, when it comes right down to it - yep, I think everyone should have the moral obligation to volunteer somewhere with somebody. Truly. SO many have SO much to give! I am NOT saying the government should make us, but I in basket's perfect world people would WANT to.

Why would that be a bad thing?

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:38 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
Yes, "required to volunteer" - funny play on words that I didn't realize I said!

That response was in regards to the fact that Morgan thought docs should volunteer their time. I actually see docs volunteering their time - and money etc. LOTS. But I work in a teaching hospital and sometimes there is a different mentality of the medical staff.

But, when it comes right down to it - yep, I think everyone should have the moral obligation to volunteer somewhere with somebody. Truly. SO many have SO much to give! I am NOT saying the government should make us, but I in basket's perfect world people would WANT to.

Why would that be a bad thing?

Absolutely not, and our high schools and youth groups that my girls are in do require. Very cool, plus we're just a volunteering kind of family. I'm off to teach my class at the church right now. I just don't want the government to require it, you know? Shivers!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:46 pm

Paulareenee wrote:
I don't have time to read the entire bill, nor do I care to. Sorry, but I just don't see how this is bad, based on the above facts.

Why is everybody so upset? Specifically.

As time goes by Paula you will see why people are upset and fearful. Unless you read the bill and understand the backroom deals that were made, and who is going to be paying for this you will never understand what is so wrong about this.

If it's so great why didn't the Dems pass it last Summer? They had the House and the Senate. They had the votes, so why didn't they pass it then? I can answer that but why bother. If all you want to know is the good stuff, good for you.

Why all the backroom deals? Why were so many Dems against this? Why did the Unions and others get a free pass and the rest of us didn't? Why did some States get a free pass leaving it to the other States to pick up their portion?

It may take Americans many years to fully understand that they were lied to. Go live in Europe, maybe the UK and Ireland and see how this really works.

The talking points are wonderful, everyone wants what they were willing to tell us was in the Bill. But I assure you the things you aren't understanding or being told is most certainly going to piss you off.

Word to the wise, moveon.org and MSNBC is not the place for the truth.

I say read the Bill - Then come back and tell me you like it or not.

There are people out there that think they now have health coverage - NOT!!!

There are people that believe it's going to be FREE - NOT!

Everyone wanted those wonderful "talking points" the idiots feed us - Sure we all love free, this is not free and it's not a good thing.

The things you and I like about it is far from the truth that Obama and his minions lied to us about.

Would you buy a home or rent an apartment and pay for it for four years before you could actually live in it? I sure as hell wouldn't.

You will get a tiny bite of the apple for now to make it all seem so wonderful, but just wait and see what the future hold for everyone.

Would you be willing to pay your neighbors mortgage or rent for eight years because he/she is a member of a Union? That's the deal the Unions got.
I don't want to be paying more in taxes and social security every month for these clowns that have better health insurance and make more money than I do.

There is so much more to this that if you aren't willing to read the Bill and know the truth it will come back to haunt you.

Who is going to pay for all those millions that will now be on medicaid? Not them......

For goodness sake, please try to read what Obama has made the law of the land.
If you don't read the actual bill then you really don't care!

I know where this is all going to head, and it's not pretty. Some of it will take years, some of it will be right away.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 6:54 pm

Have you read it Janey? Or are you just repeating what someone else has said about the bill? It's nealy 2,000 pages long...it must have taken you a while to plough through it. wink
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:09 pm

Whew Renee - I thought I was going to have to defend volunteering in general!!!!

At least, we agree on that! hug

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:20 pm

Some good things in the bill. However, the sugar has been put on the top, and nobody, not even those who voted for it know what it really contains. I just know that it is going to cost out the butt, and I don't know how they can mandate that everyone has to have health care, that is totally ridiculous. If thiswas, as has been said over and over by all of the Dems, what the American people want, why is there such an outcry on the decision. Where are we going, and why am I in a handbasket?
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:27 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Have you read it Janey? Or are you just repeating what someone else has said about the bill? It's nealy 2,000 pages long...it must have taken you a while to plough through it. wink

Of course I have read it. How can anyone support or oppose something soooo huge without actually knowing what it is they are taking sides on. How can anyone make an informed decision if they don't take the time to know what they are deciding on? What difference does it make how long it takes.

Do you think those that voted for it read it? I got together with 5 friends and we all read it. We each took turns reading it allowed so we didn't go blind.
And let me tell you, you unless you read it, you haven't got a clue.....By the way, we are a bunch of Dems and Repub's.....So it was a great time. And we loved all the things we want change on, but are all scared about the other stuff that will send us all down the road of no return.

I have also experienced it, and it's not what you all think it's going to be.

Have you read it? Has anyone else here (for or against) read it?

It's actually over 2,000 pages by the way. And keep in mind, this is way more important than the few changes "WE ALL" love!

What did I say that you may have felt I was repeating something I overheard? Just curious.

Hugs!


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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:33 pm

Can't wait until everyone with or without a car has to pay car insurance.

That way those that have a car and either chose or can't afford insurance will get it for free - Now that's another sweet deal.

I am sure that bill will be equally wonderful!
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abasketcase
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:33 pm

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I have also experienced it, and it's not what you all think it's going to be.

What does this mean, that you've lived in a country with National Health Care?
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:34 pm

Our children will be paying for this there is no free lunch. I am saddened by the whole way it was passed and against the will of many Americans. All I am praying for is November and that people see the light, as to what is happening to our country.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:35 pm

Quote :
I have also experienced it, and it's not what you all think it's going to be.

What does this mean, that you've lived in a country with National Health Care?
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 7:38 pm

Quote :
Can't wait until everyone with or without a car has to pay car insurance.

That way those that have a car and either chose or can't afford insurance will get it for free - Now that's another sweet deal.

I am sure that bill will be equally wonderful!

But but, we all do have bodies. It's not like I have chosen to not have a body, but have to pay for health care for someone who chooses to have a body.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 8:49 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Quote :
I have also experienced it, and it's not what you all think it's going to be.

What does this mean, that you've lived in a country with National Health Care?

Yes, I am from Ireland. My family lives there. My father died last August because he couldn't get in to see a specialist for 6 weeks or longer - It has gotten worse and worse as the years go by.

Your PC Doctor writes a letter to the Specialist, you wait for a letter for your appointment, it can take anywhere from 6 to 8 weeks even take months. In my dad's case it NEVER came! Two months after his PC Doctor sent the letter he died because he was never seen. My father died because no one cared and the Government runs the health care -

There is no fancy Doctor's office for patients. Not even for those with private insurance. They have free office's at these hospital's to see those on the NHS, so they use the same office to see those that have private insurance.

The people with private insurance pay a certain amount up front (like a hundred Euro) then the Doctor not only is paid more to see that patient but he has no overhead, the taxpayers are footing the bill.

As I mentioned above, many do purchase private insurance if they can afford it (even though you are also paying NHS) and you will get in to see a specialist in maybe two weeks.

My dad had heart problems. He had a triple bypass several years ago. When he had his heart attack he was admitted to the hospital by ambulance, spent a couple of day's and then they sent him home to wait until the Doctor had time to do the surgery.

He did very well, but last year he was having chest pains and wasn't looking so great. He waited and waited for an appointment to see his heart doctor, he died waiting.

My brother just told me that there was an investigation recently and they found thousands of letter's that go back 5 years that were never even opened. Most of these people are now dead. Many were older patients. There were even letter that were opened and not sent to the proper department.

Then they found letters in patients charts that were never followed up on. These patients were never seen by the Doctor. These Doctor's are on salary, they get paid whether they see a patient or not.

Like the VA, it's harder than anyone would realize to find an American Doctor at the VA. Most of the time you can't understand what they are saying, and they don't understand you. Plus, they aren't the best well educated or trained.

The care is horrible, there is no incentive for good Doctor's to work for the Government.

Some US Doctor's work at the VA for extra cash. They have their own practice and work a few hours at the VA (it's like free money for them)

Most of the Doctors are foreign. Irish Doctor's make more money in other countries where there is no socialist medicine.

It has gotten worse and worse over the years. NHS is NOT FREE, people are paying a very high price and getting horrible care. But, who do you complain to? The Government runs it, do you think they will care if you complain? People don't even know who to complain to.

I have brought my parents here to have minor things done like cataract surgery, yag lazar on their eyes and some other things they would have had to wait probably years to have done or NEVER gotten.

I had it all taken care of in a week. I had set-up the appointments and after they seen the Doctor and were diagnosed, surgery was scheduled for later that week and it was done!

Lets see how things are in 10, 15, 20 years from now.

My father died because the Government held his life in their hands, and my heart is broken!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:08 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Quote :
Can't wait until everyone with or without a car has to pay car insurance.

That way those that have a car and either chose or can't afford insurance will get it for free - Now that's another sweet deal.

I am sure that bill will be equally wonderful!

But but, we all do have bodies. It's not like I have chosen to not have a body, but have to pay for health care for someone who chooses to have a body.

Right, we all have bodies - But they are our bodies!

Right now the food police are running around telling us what we can and can't eat.
In New York some assembly man is trying to get salt banned.
Every day there is some other crazy person out there trying to take away more and more of our rights.

So, even if you don't have a car, or those that do have a car and are so irresponsible they chose not to purchase insurance.

The Government as it is right now, could be thinking "hey, you could get hit by a car while walking to work" or you could be a passenger in a car with a driver that doesn't have insurance, so lets solve the problem by making everyone purchase Insurance......That way everyone is covered!

LOL
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:30 pm

paminhlwd wrote:
Our children will be paying for this there is no free lunch. I am saddened by the whole way it was passed and against the will of many Americans. All I am praying for is November and that people see the light, as to what is happening to our country.

At this point that's all we can do is wait for November. But this is now law and those that supported it will hopefully pay the price.

The things that so many are focused on are things that would have received tremendous support. It's all the other stuff that they don't know about that's the problem.

People that support this bill are so stuck on the few things that we all want, they are blind to the real cost of what it is going to do to not only the economy and to the care we get.

When they see how much this is really going to cost us and how much it is going to change the wonderful healthcare we have become to expect, maybe they will get it.

No one that supports this Bill seems to be able to tell me why the Democrats had to bribe, give special deals and other incentives to get the votes.

If it is such a great Bill why didn't they pass it last Summer? There was nothing or no one to stop them. They had the votes needed. But many Democrats had to be bought for their vote, why????
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 10:37 pm

Again, correct me if I am wrong (and if you can prove it) but this is not the same proposal as last summer, is it? Concessions were made.

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:00 pm

I'm sorry for what happened to with your father's health care. It's a difficult thing to have happen, but it could and does happen in this country if you are not fortunate enough to be able to buy insurance and you are not employed by a company that provides it.

I visited my cousin over the holidays a few years ago. She looked...unwell. She had a distended stomach, and her arms and legs seemed frail. She was 40 years old, far too young to be called "frail." I pushed her to see a doctor, but she said that she was beginning work in a few weeks, and the employer provided health insurance. If she was able to keep her health problem a secret, she could get hired and then go to a doctor. If she went to a doctor now, she would not be hired because the company insurance would not allow the company to hire an employee with a preexisting condition. No job AND no insurance.

We backed off, we understood what she was saying. Three weeks later she was hired, and a month after that finally went to see a doctor. She had metastatic cancer. She died less than a year later. At 40. Maybe she would have survived had she seen a doctor sooner, maybe not, but she had too much money to get Medicaid, but not enough for afford the extended care she would need. She had no health insurance. Her care would have wiped out all of her savings, her home, everything, and she still had kids to care for.

You can say that she took her chances, she could have purchased health insurance, but this was just not possible. Unemployed, kids to support, she took a chance. No one in this great country should have to die because they can't afford to get health care.

As far as the cost of this Health Care Bill, the US has spent over Nine Hundred Billion Dollars on the War in the Middle East. That's a lot of health care. The money is still sieving away over there at a rate I don't even care to contemplate. I guess we pick our battles (no pun intended). I don't want my tax dollars going to that war, but they still do. You don't want your tax dollars going to National Health Care, but it still will. It's not the end of the world. It's not the end of our country.

I suspect in 50 years it will have become acclimated into our social system where it will be as natural as the schools system, unemployment insurance, water purification plants, libraries, and police forces. Something we expect, maybe something we even complain about, but something that works pretty darn good, something that we have the luxury of taking for granted. That if we are sick, we go to the doctor. It's that simple.

Quote :
Again, correct me if I am wrong (and if you can prove it) but this is not the same proposal as last summer, is it? Concessions were made.
Yes, basket, many concession were made.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:02 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
Again, correct me if I am wrong (and if you can prove it) but this is not the same proposal as last summer, is it? Concessions were made.

You are missing the point Basket. It has been like a ping pong ball for a year. Getting worse and worse every time they tried to get it passed.

It was passed by the House, the Senate added stuff and changed things (including all those sweetheart deals) it went back to the House, they didn't like what the Senate wanted, added or took out.

The Democrats majority for over a year in both houses and they couldn't agree on anything. After Scott Brown won Nancy had no choice but to convenience, promise and buy votes in Congress to get it passed.

Even though so many Democrats in Congress hated what the Senate changed and added to the bill, they had no choice but to get it passed. They had to get the votes to pass it as is because the Senate no longer had the votes. If they changed it by one word it would have to go back to the Senate.......

The only way around it was to promise those that weren't happy with it in Congress was to buy their vote, and then try to make changes in a separate bill, which is what they are trying to do right now.......
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:09 pm

Janey wrote:
abasketclayse wrote:
Again, correct me if I am wrong (and if you can prove it) but this is not the same proposal as last summer, is it? Concessions were made.

You are missing the point Basket. It has been like a ping pong ball for a year. Getting worse and worse every time they tried to get it passed.

It was passed by the House, the Senate added stuff and changed things (including all those sweetheart deals) it went back to the House, they didn't like what the Senate wanted, added or took out.

The Democrats majority for over a year in both houses and they couldn't agree on anything. After Scott Brown won Nancy had no choice but to convenience, promise and buy votes in Congress to get it passed.

Even though so many Democrats in Congress hated what the Senate changed and added to the bill, they had no choice but to get it passed. They had to get the votes to pass it as is because the Senate no longer had the votes. If they changed it by one word it would have to go back to the Senate.......

The only way around it was to promise those that weren't happy with it in Congress was to buy their vote, and then try to make changes in a separate bill, which is what they are trying to do right now.......

That's called "politics", and is actually a pretty good discription of what happens every day on the hill, wilth every bill. This one is a lot less "jumbled" than most because people are actually keeping an eye on it. Not a lot of unrelated pork on this one.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:18 pm

I wasn't missing any point. I was responding to this comment:

If it is such a great Bill why didn't they pass it last Summer?


My point was that when it didn't "pass" last summer, changes were made - so the bill passed Sunday was not the same as what was presented in the summer.

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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Tue Mar 23, 2010 11:39 pm

[quote="happyjoy"]I'm sorry for what happened to with your father's health care. It's a difficult thing to have happen, but it could and does happen in this country if you are not fortunate enough to be able to buy insurance and you are not employed by a company that provides it.[quote]

This is the quality of care for everyone Happy. This is not unusual, it's the norm. You are at their mercy. This is not just about my father -

I could give you a list of family, friends, strangers that get the same treatment. It is how health care is and it has nothing to do with having insurance. EVERYONE that earns a paycheck has health insurance. Even those that don't work are entitled to health care. But they wait forever just like everyone else.

And the situation with my dad was way more than crappy health care, it was my fathers life, he paid into something that failed him when he needed it, and now he is dead because no one cared!

My father had a hernia, it took 12 months for him to finally get the surgery he needed. Do you have any idea how sad it was to see him hurt for 12 frigging months????
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:59 am

Do do realize that it's the IRS that will be overseeing this new health care?
They will be the one's issuing fines to those that chose not to get health care.

They will be hiring 16,000 new employees to do this.....THat we the tax payers will be paying for - what a deal we are getting!!!!! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:02 am

Janey wrote:
Do do realize that it's the IRS that will be overseeing this new health care?
They will be the one's issuing fines to those that chose not to get health care.

They will be hiring 16,000 new employees to do this.....THat we the tax payers will be paying for - what a deal we are getting!!!!! LOL

This scares the living hell out of me. I mean, seriously. If you don't do what the government wants, the IRS can come after you. Sorry, but What the F??? I really and truly want to know why EVERYONE isn't flaming mad over this provision.

Here's an article on this provision:

http://www.examiner.com/x-33986-Political-Spin-Examiner~y2010m3d23-Obama-signs-health-care-reform-into-law-IRS-becomes-a-bounty-hunter-agency


Last edited by Renee on Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : added link to article)
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:12 am

Renee wrote:
Janey wrote:
Do do realize that it's the IRS that will be overseeing this new health care?
They will be the one's issuing fines to those that chose not to get health care.

They will be hiring 16,000 new employees to do this.....THat we the tax payers will be paying for - what a deal we are getting!!!!! LOL

This scares the living hell out of me. I mean, seriously. If you don't do what the government wants, the IRS can come after you. Sorry, but What the F??? I really and truly want to know why EVERYONE isn't flaming mad over this provision.

Also. did you know that this Bill is not just about Health Care?

They have also taken over student loans........which will increase tuition by about 1,500 - 1,800.
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