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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:18 am

abasketclayse wrote:
I wasn't missing any point. I was responding to this comment:

If it is such a great Bill why didn't they pass it last Summer?


My point was that when it didn't "pass" last summer, changes were made - so the bill passed Sunday was not the same as what was presented in the summer.

But congress didn't like the changes but they passed it anyway. Otherwise they would have left it with the changes last Summer and been able to have the Senate pass it.

They just didn't expect to lose Kennedy's seat and waited too long.

So my point is, if it was such a great Bill congress would have passed the changes right away, sent it back to the Senate and it would have passed last Summer.

Problem was, this wasn't what they all wanted but passed it anyway regardless of how the American people felt or what they wanted, and some even caved in and voted on something they didn't believe in!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 3:06 am

What did you guy's think of Biden dropping the "F" Bomb this morning????

What a fool!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 11:28 am

Janey wrote:
What did you guy's think of Biden dropping the "F" Bomb this morning????

What a fool!

I don't see Joe Biden as a fool for being excited about a momentous occasion......he wasn't shouting it out loud...it was said only to the President and the mic picked it up....much the same as what has happened to many politicians....George W. Bush included.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 12:03 pm

Janey wrote:
What did you guy's think of Biden dropping the "F" Bomb this morning????

What a fool!

Truth be told, that didn't bother me so much. As much as I disagree with his politics...I trust Biden far more than Obama. He is who he is and he says what he thinks, even if he gets in trouble. I'll take that any day, even from someone saying something I disagree with, than a snake oil salesman.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:41 pm

Janey wrote:
What did you guy's think of Biden dropping the "F" Bomb this morning????

What a fool!

I found the montage of George W. Bush, Cheney, Ronald Reagan, Richard Nixon et al, on TV this morning, publicaly dropping the F-bomb, very interesting.

Guess Joe Biden joined the ranks of "fool" (by your definition, Janey, not mine) yesterday.

Big offices...big pressures, I'm sure. ht
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 1:58 pm

I'll just say what I used to tell my children when they first were experimenting with bad language. I trusted my children to make their own decisions.

Its just 4 letters strung together to make a word. The world itself has little meaning and looked at by itself a word can't be ' bad '.

BUT

words have meaning and are used for communication and some words carry anger and insult and some even put forth a challenge to a fight. Using some words in the wrong settings can color you yourself as a certain type of individual.

Just make sure you know what you are trying to communicate and what the result will be to your own character before choosing to use this particular 4 letters strung together.

~~~~~


The word is often used by powerful men to make a point and to make certain events and feelings stand apart. In my opinion the word was used completely appropriately and said to a trusted ally. But he should have been more careful in being aware of his surroundings and knowing it might be overheard.

~~~~~
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 2:34 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Janey wrote:
abasketclayse wrote:
Again, correct me if I am wrong (and if you can prove it) but this is not the same proposal as last summer, is it? Concessions were made.

You are missing the point Basket. It has been like a ping pong ball for a year. Getting worse and worse every time they tried to get it passed.

It was passed by the House, the Senate added stuff and changed things (including all those sweetheart deals) it went back to the House, they didn't like what the Senate wanted, added or took out.

The Democrats majority for over a year in both houses and they couldn't agree on anything. After Scott Brown won Nancy had no choice but to convenience, promise and buy votes in Congress to get it passed.

Even though so many Democrats in Congress hated what the Senate changed and added to the bill, they had no choice but to get it passed. They had to get the votes to pass it as is because the Senate no longer had the votes. If they changed it by one word it would have to go back to the Senate.......

The only way around it was to promise those that weren't happy with it in Congress was to buy their vote, and then try to make changes in a separate bill, which is what they are trying to do right now.......

That's called "politics", and is actually a pretty good discription of what happens every day on the hill, wilth every bill. This one is a lot less "jumbled" than most because people are actually keeping an eye on it. Not a lot of unrelated pork on this one.

Exactly, Happyjoy. It's the nature of the beast, it's how politics works.

Janey, you don't seem to be familiar with this aspect of how laws end up getting passed in this country. "Pork" is not always pretty, but it has unfortunately (IMHO) become the way laws are made in our country. Our Congressmen represent so many people with such diverse needs and interests that it is how they are able to secure legislation for the common good while still addressing their constituent's special interests. From what you have said, I'm guessing this is not how it is done in your native country. It has really gotten very out of hand in many cases and I think most Americans would rather not see all the "pork' attached to each bill. With this particular piece of legislation, it is not as bad as some.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 4:46 pm

ClaysFayevorite wrote:

Janey, you don't seem to be familiar with this aspect of how laws end up getting passed in this country. "Pork" is not always pretty, but it has unfortunately (IMHO) become the way laws are made in our country. Our Congressmen represent so many people with such diverse needs and interests that it is how they are able to secure legislation for the common good while still addressing their constituent's special interests. From what you have said, I'm guessing this is not how it is done in your native country. It has really gotten very out of hand in many cases and I think most Americans would rather not see all the "pork' attached to each bill. With this particular piece of legislation, it is not as bad as some.

Quote: you don't seem to be familiar with this aspect of how laws end up getting passed in this country....

Is there a reason you would say something like that to me??
I would really like an answer. I am very insulted, and hurt.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:16 pm

moving to the kitchen
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:20 pm

Janey

you recently posted that you were born in Ireland. I think probably she assumed you still live there.

I'm sure she didn't mean to insult you in any way.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:24 pm

*sigh*

had to happen

moving the thread to the kitchen, that is

It sure does cause the drama yeah?
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:42 pm

Hey! We got five pages on a red hot political issue! I think we deserve a round of applause!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H-eYBZFEzf8

Amended ..I still like the "I'm just a bill" song....


Last edited by happyjoy on Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:46 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:45 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Janey

you recently posted that you were born in Ireland. I think probably she assumed you still live there.

I'm sure she didn't mean to insult you in any way.

Morgan,
I am not going make a big deal about this. I am the one that was hurt by her remark. I HATE it when everyone else feels the need to make excuses and take sides in something that has nothing to do with them.

You are assuming what she meant and why she said it.
Why do people here do that? This is why things always get ugly. Allow people to answer for themselves.

I only wanted an answer from her. For her to assume I don't know "how things work in THIS country" is not only hurtful, it is wrong!

My answer in regards to where I was born was to a question about Healthcare and if I had experienced this type of Government run Healthcare, not law or how things are done in Washington.

As for moving this to where it should have been all along - funny how it only happened as soon as I asked a very important question that hurt me!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:49 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Hey! We got five pages on a red hot political issue! I think we deserve a round of applause!

(and Janey, I don't think she meant that you didn't live in the US, just that you hadn't gone through Civics Classes, Youth in Government, Political Science courses in College, followed other bills through to their passage, or been inundated with the "I'm Just a Bill" song as a kid.
Grease the wheel, you scratch my back, etc.)

I will keep it simple, I did take all of those classes in College. But thanks for assuming I didn't.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 5:57 pm

Janey wrote:
happyjoy wrote:
Hey! We got five pages on a red hot political issue! I think we deserve a round of applause!

(and Janey, I don't think she meant that you didn't live in the US, just that you hadn't gone through Civics Classes, Youth in Government, Political Science courses in College, followed other bills through to their passage, or been inundated with the "I'm Just a Bill" song as a kid.
Grease the wheel, you scratch my back, etc.)

I will keep it simple, I did take all of those classes in College. But thanks for assuming I didn't.

Fair enough (and the first two are High School courses and and a High School extra-curricular program...) If you did take college Poly Sci program, I am surprised that you are upset over the back and forth of the Health Care Bill. It's the way it is done on every bill. I was't kidding about the pork barrel Mississippi bypass ad-on to the "no cigarette to kids" bill. Google pork barrel to see many examples of it. Sometimes the ad-ons are legit, and the only way to get good legislation passed.


Last edited by happyjoy on Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:01 pm

Jane...
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:08 pm

happyjoy wrote:
Janey wrote:
happyjoy wrote:
Hey! We got five pages on a red hot political issue! I think we deserve a round of applause!

(and Janey, I don't think she meant that you didn't live in the US, just that you hadn't gone through Civics Classes, Youth in Government, Political Science courses in College, followed other bills through to their passage, or been inundated with the "I'm Just a Bill" song as a kid.
Grease the wheel, you scratch my back, etc.)

I will keep it simple, I did take all of those classes in College. But thanks for assuming I didn't.

Fair enough (and the first two are High School courses and and a High School extra-curricular program...) If you did take college Poly Sci program, I am surprised that you are upset over the back and forth of the Health Care Bill. It's the way it is done on every bill.

Look, I never once said I was upset about any of the back and forth - All I said was, they had the votes last Summer and could have passed it - Why didn't they?

Oh, just to clear another point, I have a High School Diploma too.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 6:12 pm

joechgo1 wrote:
Jane...

Than you so much Joe, you have no idea how much I needed that or how much that meant to me - But it did make me cry -

I love you, you are such a loving person. I wish I could give you a great big hug in person...... hug ht
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:02 pm

Quote :
Look, I never once said I was upset about any of the back and forth - All I said was, they had the votes last Summer and could have passed it - Why didn't they?

Oh, just to clear another point, I have a High School Diploma too.

I keep sticking my foot in it, and it's not even my dog!

I started to write something else, but I'm in this up to my backside anyway, let's go for the neck.

This has nothing at all to do with any assumption that I am making about your level of education, just where you were educated. You are going to learn more about the history/literature/politics in the country in which you are living. Heck, in the 5th grade, I lived in Florida for a year. I learned all about the Conchs and the Crackers, and Ponce De Leon, and Mangrove trees than anyone needs to know! But I missed learning about the Missions and Spanish and the history of California. Our history curriculum was completely different depending on which state we lived in.

Okay, enough of that.

Dear Jane, I'm sorry if I made assumption about you and your education. I know that you have family in Ireland, and assumed that you went to high school there as well (and probably college, too). I further assumed that you came to the US and became a citizen, which meant you took citizenshop classes. You are well spoken and very interested in politics, maybe even took advanced classes here in the US. If I was wrong and you, I apologize, but none of this was meant to demean you.

To answer your question, it was not a slam dunk for the Democrats. Obama wanted there to be public debate. He wanted the Republicans to have a chance to put their finger print on the bill. There were Democrats that had problems with the bill, and Obama wanted to address their concerns.

The Democrats are not in lock step, 34 Democrats in the House did not support the bill even in the vote on Sunday. There were concessions made, debate on the public option, this bill is not the same one as last summer.

As it turned out, while Republicans concerns were addressed in the bill, no Republican voted for it. Obama tried for a bi-partison bill, but it didn't happen. But the public debate was paramount to the acceptance of the bill by the public. And in a Gallup Poll from last night, 49 % of respondents said the bill was a "good thing," while 40 % considered it a "bad thing". So the Majority of the populaton back the bill as well, something that might not have happened had the bill be pushed through during the summer.

http://news.theage.com.au/breaking-news-world/us-health-care-bill-backed-by-49-poll-20100324-qumv.html

After all, it's all politics Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 7:56 pm

happyjoy wrote:

I keep sticking my foot in it, and it's not even my dog!

I started to write something else, but I'm in this up to my backside anyway, let's go for the neck.

This has nothing at all to do with any assumption that I am making about your level of education, just where you were educated.

Dear Jane, I'm sorry if I made assumption about you and your education. I know that you have family in Ireland, and assumed that you went to high school there as well (and probably college, too). I further assumed that you came to the US and became a citizen, which meant you took citizenshop classes. You are well spoken and very interested in politics, maybe even took advanced classes here in the US. If I was wrong and you, I apologize, but none of this was meant to demean you.

Very Happy

Still a lot of assumptions there that are wrong.

Might be a good idea to stop "assuming" and maybe ask me instead of just assuming. Appreciate you thinking I am "well spoken" nice of you to say so. But do you think I learned English in the US because I also speak my native language too?

Don't bother answering because it really doesn't matter to me anymore. I am tired of responding to your assumptions.
How you feel about people from other countries is really none of my business.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:18 pm

I was surprised when Obama said children with pre-existing illness' would be covered immediately. What did you guy's think?

I knew adults would be covered in 4 years, and some had said children would be covered in 6 months.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:28 pm

Janey wrote:
I was surprised when Obama said children with pre-existing illness' would be covered immediately. What did you guy's think?

I knew adults would be covered in 4 years, and some had said children would be covered in 6 months.

That's great...except that they won't. Surprise, surprise, he tells people what they want to hear, truth or not...

Quote :
"This is a patient's bill of rights on steroids," the president said Friday at George Mason University in Virginia. "Starting this year, thousands of uninsured Americans with pre-existing conditions will be able to purchase health insurance, some for the very first time. Starting this year, insurance companies will be banned forever from denying coverage to children with pre-existing conditions."

All of this is good...except that this won't kick in until 2014. We'll be paying for it now, thank you. But what's a little misspeak?

They're scrambling to fix it. Our congress passes and our president signs a flawed bill they know needs major fixing...but it's cause for celebration anyway. No

Anyone want to talk about how bureaucrats in Washington now get to know about my medical history? Yay, more government in my life!
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:30 pm

I figured you would have told me where you went to school if you wanted me to know. All I have after that is assumptions, which I tried to express to you. I guess that is what happens when I try to be up front.

It's interesting that you take it as a diss when I call you "well spoken." Wow! I thought it was a compliment. (I'd be complimented if someone said I was well spoken...)

You can chose to think I was belittling you with my last post, but I have a hard time seeing where terms like:

...went to high school and college
...you are well spoken and very interested in politics
...took advanced classes here in the US

can be considered as negative.

But there you go. *shrug*
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 8:44 pm

Janey -

There is no coincidence in it being moved and you saying you were insulted and hurt. No need for you to see conspiracies there. It's exactly why I moved it since that's exactly what ' The Kitchen ' is for.

Friends always speak for friends. I'm not going to apologize for it. Friends also try to make friends feel better when their feelings are hurt and you're my friend.


Anyway - you're in the kitchen now so you all have more leeway to argue and pull out the big guns. . . kinda.

Let's try to tread lightly. The big explosions take out the whole board for awhile so let's keep this going in the level keel it was at.

Thanks.
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PostSubject: Re: President Obama and Health Care   Wed Mar 24, 2010 9:40 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Janey -

There is no coincidence in it being moved and you saying you were insulted and hurt. No need for you to see conspiracies there. It's exactly why I moved it since that's exactly what ' The Kitchen ' is for.

Friends always speak for friends. I'm not going to apologize for it. Friends also try to make friends feel better when their feelings are hurt and you're my friend.


Anyway - you're in the kitchen now so you all have more leeway to argue and pull out the big guns. . . kinda.

Let's try to tread lightly. The big explosions take out the whole board for awhile so let's keep this going in the level keel it was at.

Thanks.

Morgan,
I am glad you moved it. I thought it should have been in this forum all along. It just surprised me it hadn't been moved long before it was.

I don't want to argue with anyone. I thanked Joe for caring as a friend, it was very sweet for him to offer me a hug because I was hurt.

As you can see from my last post, I have moved on.
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