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PostSubject: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 3:42 pm

Who's position are you most in agreement with for health care and why?

(there is another thread I started for the economy.....if anyone wants to debate that issue.)
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:31 pm

I think I'm a Republicrat on this one. . .

I want everyone to have health care

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 4:47 pm

For the not-so-informed, it would be nice (like in this instance) Cincy if you could also post something simple, brief about what each of their stance is on the topic. That would also help us to learn more.... Very Happy

I agree with Barack that health care should be a right....especially for children.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:16 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
I think I'm a Republicrat on this one. . .

I want everyone to have health care

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it.

I don't want to make waves, Morgan, but did you ever considered that:

I want to have roads

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it

I want to have schools,

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it

I want to have police and fire departments

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it

I want to have national security

. . . . but I don't want to pay for it

There are already systems in place that we as a nation think should be available to all people, that we tax payers do pay for. Not wanting to pay for something is not nessecarily a good reason to not have it available.

I don't support the continuing war in the Middle East, but my tax dollars go for that. (Not to mention the 700 billion dollar bailout...that would pay for a lot of ER visits). I would much rather my tax dollars go to suppling health care to the people of this nation.

It is possible, it can happen, there is a precident. We do supply any number of social programs in ths nation....just not this one.
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 5:51 pm

Geesh sponge I said I wanted it Sad

I believe ( unless its changed more than I think ) that there are already free health care programs for the lowest income and the disabled.

Rather than provide free health care above the poverty line I think it would be better to work with the system in place and try to somehow drive down or subsidize the price of it to make it more in thier means.

Providing free health care means the government is running it and I'm not for government run much of anything. I think it would be a nightmare of people needing services yesterday and falling through the cracks.

Health care does not fall into the same category ( for me ) with a universal benefit like the other things you mentioned.

Roads are paid for by all because our goods and services are reliant on them - also we pay use charges such as gasoline taxes which puts the burden directly on the user.

Schools are paid for by everyone BUT even those without children benefit from a more educated society.

National Security effects everyone and everyone should pay for it.

Police costs should be covered by everyone also.

The only thing even close in the list is Fire Dept which benefits some of the people yet is paid by all. But since fire can spread quickly its fair to say it effects us all and is also something that should be paid for as a group.

Health care for an individual who is not legitimately poverty level or disabled, etc is not my financial responsiblity. I think I have a big heart and I'd like to say help them all but many changes need to be made to make MANY necessities in life affordable but I don't feel its right that I pay for it. The more I pay for it the more I fall to the level of poverty myself. Vicious cycle.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:12 pm

I would say that having a healthy nation as well as an educated nation would be of benefit to the country. wink

And McCain's bailout as proposed in the last debate is basically saying that it is more important to have overextended home owners remain in their homes than (slightly) above poverty level people be able to get health care.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:17 pm

Sorry dont see the benefit - nice dream but dont see the actual benefit. Its hard for me to speak in terms of realism when I'd very much like to see a dream society but as I get older I become much more of a realist.

An educated society will increase productivity, cure disease, solve problems, be less likely to commit crime.

Most people are healthy all on thier own. If they are disabled in some way the programs exist. If they want a better life and more access to health care they need to work for it.

I think the answer is in fixing the programs that exist, caps for the price of health insurance and limits on the price of malpractice payments and court ordered payouts, and more wellness clinics staffed by people with lesser degrees than doctors. Most people under say 60 would be just fine and healthy with simple wellness exams performed by nurses in my opinon.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 6:28 pm

You forgot to mention caps on phamacuticals!

We're not going to have socialized medicine in my lifetime, just not going to happen, so this is all just conjecture anyway. Sorry, Morgan, I just ran out of steam....I'll get back to you an this tomorrow wink
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:12 pm

I support universal health care. Under Obama's plan for universal health care, there will be affordable, accessible health care for everyone, including children or people with pre-existing conditions. If you already have health care, his plan will lower your premiums and you can keep it. If you don't, you'll be able to get the same kind of coverage that members of Congress give themselves. No one should have to haggle with insurance companies or not receive health care when they are sick. And there should be no disparity in the health care a currently insured person gets in preference to those who cannot afford it. I don't mind paying for it at all.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:26 pm

Well cincy you can afford it and the discussion as I understood it was universal free health care such as in Canada which would be quite a different subject. Maybe I misunderstood.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:40 pm

I thought we were talking about the health care plans of the candidates in this election....sorry.

But as far as affording it, I don't know anyone who has no health care that is not in favor of universal health care. Those who oppose it in most cases have health insurance. I thought we were talking about raising taxes to pay for health care for everyone. I would not mind my taxes being reapportioned to pay for health care for those who cannot afford to pay for their own plan or the plan similar to that of our elected officials. And the same health care coverage for everyone.

Without universal or federally funded and regulated health care too many citizens face potentially catastrophic physical and financial consequence of unpredictable illness, accident, and disability. Also, the hospitals and providers, unwilling to deny needed care, also are hurt by incurring bad debt.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 10:05 pm

Canada has free health care

I tried to find info on Obamas proposed health care but kept coming up with what appeared to be free health care like Canada.

Anyway, I think caps on health care which I agreed with sounds like about the same thing as what you are stating but I dont agree with taxpayers subsidizing others health care at the rates they are now. That only causes people on the edge to drop into the need help zone.

Neither of my children have health care plans and neither can afford it but I'm still not for any type of government regulated health care plan. I would prefer the government find a solution and cap to the spiraling costs rather than subsidize and pay it. Limiting payouts on medical law suits would be a start to help to drive down malpractice insurance which is at the heart of the problem in my opinion. (I'm sure that wouldnt be real popular around your office of course cinc ) Rather than continue to band-aid the problems they should look to find the sources of the problem to correct. Although its tragic to lose someone to a medical mistake I dont think making someone a millionaire is appropriate to cover their losses.

I still think low cost clinics could be staffed by nurses and provide basic wellness care or doctors could be encouraged in some way such as tax write offs to participate for free for those who need simply basic care. Id much rather see this than government organized anything.

What I would like to see the government run, however and operate is a PX style store in all major population areas where true necessities can be bought. No one should have to spend money to feed thier family on overpriced toilet paper, light bulbs, soap, aspirin, etc. Provide this type of thing at little cost. No luxury or brands are necessary. Produce them in the prisons would be my best suggestion but I'm sure there are many ways to produce such things for practically nothing and create jobs along the way.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:03 pm

Morgan, Obama's health care plan is not free or socialist as Canada's appears to be (I could be wrong about Canada). Actually, Obama's plan implements some of the very things you want to see! I know you don't like long vomity posts, so if you are really interested in his plan, go here:

http://www.barackobama.com/pdf/Obama08_HealthcareFAQ.pdf

It is a detailed plan, too extensive to properly address here. But if health care is a high priority in your decision making process, it is definitely worth the time to read.
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PostSubject: Re: Health Care   Thu Oct 09, 2008 11:54 pm

It looks impressive but then all campaign promises always look impressive.

Its a step in the right direction. I'll agree with that. Since I dont make over $250,000 a year I guess I dont have to pay for it - lol. EVER
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