Whoa! That's an expensive dress Sarah!!!!

Jojo, I'm so sorry about your grandbaby. That sort of heartbreak is unthinkable.

I understand why your daughter made the decision she did, but to me, this is completely outside the abortion debate. Surely we can find the means to write a law where these situations are preserved, but the horrifying 800,000 abortions annually that have more to do with convenience than tragedy can come to an end. We simply cannot allow that type of wholesale mass murder and stand by and do nothing.

I cannot imagine a single argument where those numbers can be justified.

My love and prayers, Jojo, as always, are with you. Meeting you in Vegas will always be one of my favorite memories!

I do care very much about this election, too much. My frustration was getting so bad it was effecting my health. I decided to keep my feelings to myself about Obama. No matter what you say and not even written proof about his possibly shady alliances or ideas will dissuade the dedicated supporters. There were several leaders in history will mesmerized the masses with their charisma and rhetoric and people became like sheep not seeing the handwriting on the wall. Renee, I understand your feelings completely I feel the same, but I have given up in getting anyone to be more objective and just praying for America, and hoping things will not get as bad as I think they will. I also sorry to see good friends here becoming so divided over the election they are forgetting what brought us here in the first place and all we have shared. We are all Americans and just want whats best for our country at the end of the day.

Guest wrote:

First, I send my heartfelt sympathy to JoJo and understand your heartbreak for your daughter, her husband and their much adored little girl.

Second, Renee, you took my post exactly as I meant it.

Morgan, sometimes you read things into other's post that are simply not there. I am well aware that Joan left on her own.If you will go back and read the posts and the emails bringing to a head Joan's decision to leave the board I think if the tables were turned, you would have left yourself.

I am a fun loving, charitable person who does not like negativity so I will be sending my resignation also. Thank you for the eye opener.

May I ask who this is that left? I am so lost at this....

Awwwwwwwwwww Jane

what a sweet message that was from you - thank you.

We have surely been through some rough times together and managed to come out the other side whole ( maybe - lol )

The member that deleted thier membership was Phyll. She didn't post a lot so you might not have had contact with her.


and Pamhollywood - I sure hope you're not right, but you are correct of course that it can happen. Scary times.

Paminhlwd,

I am so sorry that you and others on this board are so terrified of an Obama presidency. Unfortunately, scaring the bejesus out of the electorate has become the modus operandi for the past 20 years of Rovian campaigns. I know that you like and respect Palin and McCain, and would like to see them as the new executive team. They would make a fine team....

But Biden and Obama will also make a fine team. Despite what you are reading on the Internet, or hearing on talk radio, Obama is a fine man, a good Christian, a loving husband and father, and will put together a good team of advisors. He loves the US and will do everything in his power to get us though the current economic morose. John McCain has said the Barack Obama is a fine man and will make a good president, just that John McCain will make a better one!

Believe me, if there was even a whiff of doubt that the things that I have also read and heard were true, Obama would have been booted out a long time ago. The vetting process is incredible for the presidential candidates.

The supporters of Obama are not having the wool pulled over our eyes, we are not smitten and easily swayed. The fact is that these "questionable alliances," are not that big a deal, certainly not as big a deal as Karl Rove and their ilk would have you believe.

Obama has been campaigning for 20 months. He has two books out. He is not an unknown. And while I know I cannot expect you to embrace his policies, I only wish to make you sleep a little better at night.

Obama loves his country. He will have your interests at heart. He is a good man. John McCain even said so....

Excellent points Sponge !

I hope the country can pull together after this one and back the president with respect and allegiance . . . whoever it turns out to be.

(cept maybe if it turns out to be another Bush )

spongie wrote:

Paminhlwd,

I am so sorry that you and others on this board are so terrified of an Obama presidency. Unfortunately, scaring the bejesus out of the electorate has become the modus operandi for the past 20 years of Rovian campaigns. I know that you like and respect Palin and McCain, and would like to see them as the new executive team. They would make a fine team....

But Biden and Obama will also make a fine team. Despite what you are reading on the Internet, or hearing on talk radio, Obama is a fine man, a good Christian, a loving husband and father, and will put together a good team of advisors. He loves the US and will do everything in his power to get us though the current economic morose. John McCain has said the Barack Obama is a fine man and will make a good president, just that John McCain will make a better one!

Believe me, if there was even a whiff of doubt that the things that I have also read and heard were true, Obama would have been booted out a long time ago. The vetting process is incredible for the presidential candidates.

The supporters of Obama are not having the wool pulled over our eyes, we are not smitten and easily swayed. The fact is that these "questionable alliances," are not that big a deal, certainly not as big a deal as Karl Rove and their ilk would have you believe.

Obama has been campaigning for 20 months. He has two books out. He is not an unknown. And while I know I cannot expect you to embrace his policies, I only wish to make you sleep a little better at night.

Obama loves his country. He will have your interests at heart. He is a good man. John McCain even said so....

Lets hope you are right. Thats all i can say

This is why I am terrified of Barack Obama, Spongie


He voted for partial birth abortion.
He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.
In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.
Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.
Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in high school and in college.
His religious convictions are very murky.
He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.
Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with all Muslim nations. Why?
Opposed the Patriot Act.
First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.
Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.
Supports universal health-care.
Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.
Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.
Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.
Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.
Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.
Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.
Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)
Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.
Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.
He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets. Tax Increase.
He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.
He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.
Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.
He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in the Senate today and that takes some doing.

He may be a good man but I don't agree with any of his opinions on the issues. I also think alot of his plans can be bad for America and our children.

pam - where are you getting that information from

you need to cite your source if not you might simply be passing on campaign smearing rhetoric.

It was sent to me in an email Morgan


We felt this info to be very significant as the facts are documented.
Bill Brown, retired from the Billy Graham Evangelistic Assn.., sent this to us. Please pass along if you would like. I believe we need to know our candidates better.

Pam, i like your avatar in a minute, i am sending

those email campaigns are rarely reliable and you see where it says its been documented but doesnt state where.

I'm not saying its false info cause I dont follow things THAT closely just saying without knowing where the info is coming from I'd take it with a BIG grain of salt.

I should be packing, but thought I would just run through the short list Pam presented.

The list seems factual and I'll just take what is being printed at it's word. The issues brought up are primarily policy issues, and not at all out of line with the basic Democratic/Republican stances.

You could name almost any Democrat and Republican and they'd line up the same way. I would have to look very hard, and do some very fancy tap dancing to turn any of Obama's stances stated into anything that one could consider "putting the country at risk."

They seem to be mainly constitutional issues, immigration issues, and tax issues... I guess what I am attempting to say, is that none of what I read below is worth losing sleep over. It's just the same old same old in the Democratic/Republican conservative/liberal debate that has gone on since the Whigs were in power.

He voted for partial birth abortion.

You already have someone on this board that gave a very compelling case for late term abortion. A ban on late term abortion would keep everyone, including the case mentioned, from having this, even if the mother's health was at risk. This is a call to be made by the doctor and the mother, not the government.

He voted no on notifying parents of minors who get out-of-state abortions.

I would have to look into this.

In 2001 he questioned harsh penalties for drug dealing as being too severe.

They are talking about lessening penalties for marijuana possession of less than 3 ounces (personal use,) not hard drugs. I agree with this.

Says he will deal with street level drug dealing as minimum wage affair.

He is speaking about marijuana use here as well, not hard drugs. I concur.

Admitted his use of marijuana and cocaine in high school and in college.

So did George W Bush.

His religious convictions are very murky.

Not murky at all. He is a converted Christian, attends Christian church, children are being raised Christian. As a Catholic, that is all my church needs to consider a parishioner within the fold.

He is willing to meet with Fidel Castro, Hugo Chavez, Kim Jung Il and Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

I should hope so! You keep the world safe by having a dialogue with these people, not by saber rattling and threats of violence or suppression!

Has said that one of his first goals after being elected would be to have a conference with all Muslim nations. Why?

There is nothing wrong with being a Muslin. There is nothing wrong with the religion. There is nothing wrong with being a Muslin nation. There may be leaders of some of these nations that are wrong, but not with the religion itself. And again, to make the world safer, you need to open up a dialogue with these nations, not bombing the **** out of them.

Opposed the Patriot Act.

There are many portions of the patriot act that I disagree with. The lose of personal freedoms and potential for abuse of power amongst many.

First bill he signed that was ever passed was campaign finance reform.

Good for him!

Voted to allow law suits against gun manufacturers.

Why not? Why should anyone be exempt from law suits? This does not mean that gun manufacturers will be sued willy nilly, just that there be accountability.

Supports universal health-care.

As do I. We are the only industrialized country in the world who does not have health care readily avaliable for our citizens. It is also extremely expensive when the only doctor available to many of the poorest is at an emergency room.

Voted yes on providing habeas corpus for Guantanamo detainees.

What is going on at Guantanamo is appalling to me. There are no words...

Supports granting driver's licenses to illegal immigrants.

I'll need to research this one...

Supports extending welfare to illegal immigrants.

This is reference to proving food and shelter to children of illegal immigrants.

Voted yes on comprehensive immigration reform.

So did George Bush.

Voted yes on allowing illegal aliens to participate in Social Security.

The illegal aliens have been paying into the system. This allows them to participate to the degree that they have funded the system by wages taken from their paychecks. I don't know how I feel about this one. I don't think that it is an issue that is going to tank the US government, however.

Wants to make the minimum wage a 'living wage'.

I want the minimum wage to be a living wage. Don't you?

Voted with Democratic Party 96 percent of 251 votes. (241 votes Demo, 10 votes Republican)

I'm a Democrat, I approve!

Is a big believer in the separation of church and state.

Separation of church and state is in the Constitution! It's one of the most fundamental tenets of our Founding Fathers!

Opposed to any efforts to Privatize Social Security and instead supports increasing the amount of tax paid into Soc. Sec. Tax Increase.

Had Social Security been Privatized, we would be in a world of hurt right now with the stock market plunging to historical lows, and still falling. Tax increase only for those making over $250,000.

He voted No on repealing the Alternative Minimum Tax which now hits middle income brackets.

If you really want to get that heavy into tax structure, you can read about it here. http://www.fairmark.com/amt/amt101.htm

I've never made anywhere near enough money to have effect me, and I'm well into the middle class.

He voted No on repealing the 'Death' Tax. Tax Increase.

Would not effect the middle class. This is intersting.

Quote :

It is amazing that a tax paid by so few estates gets so much attention. The Tax Policy Center, which is run by the Urban Institute and the Brookings Institution, estimates that 15,500 estates will face any tax bill this year, and that half the $23 billion in taxes will come from just 700 estates, each of which will face a bill of more than $5 million.

He wants to raise the Capital Gains Tax. Tax Increase.

Would not effect the middle class.

Has repeatedly said the surge in Iraq has not succeeded...which is not true.

I'm not going to comment on this one, because it goes to a definition of "succeeded." Succeed or no, there is still the business of removing our troops from the area. This is the goal of Bush, McCain and Obama.

He is ranked as the most liberal Senator in the Senate today and that takes some doing.

I'm a liberal Democrat, so I approve.

Now I really am going..... TTFN!

Thanks Sponge - that helped a lot I think !

I dont know enough about any of it to comment but I didnt see anything too scary in that list really.

What I do know is you can not look at someones voting record without seeing the WHOLE bill they were voting on.

Because someone votes against a provision or law it might have little to do with the actual subject in question and much to do with the pork barreling or language used in the law. Voting against legislation on a particular subject is simply saying this isnt the proper legislation for this problem. To then say they voted against ' whatever ' is simply not correct in my opinion.

What if you didnt believe in abortion and were asked to vote on a law that stated that no fetus could be medically tampered with. Would you approve it ? That means no mother carrying a viable infant to term can have a medical procedure to save her unborn child. You probably would not vote on it and hope to see new better legislation that defined things better . . . but in the political arena they would now say you voted to allow abortion.

Did that make sense.