Can you feel the silent mutiny ?

You are very right, Basket.

We need to get back to respect for EVERYONE's feelings and opinions.

I'm sure I've been all kinds of unfair in the whirlwhind I've been in and I hope to do better in the future but this will always be a free speech board within some limits of humanity of course.

If anyone wants to speak of their less then perfection feelings of Clay they are welcome to. We are not the OFC where I would expect everyone to only love Clay ( although they dont geesh )

We are a family. Some members don't even like Clay much and they do just fine fitting in. We are so much more than Clay Aiken.

We originally developed this group to be a semi x rated woodshed to talk about sexual feelings for a young guy on tv. Yep we were a bunch of leacherous broads looking for privacy to share our fantasies. It doesnt suprise me at all that Clays announcement rocked us hard. But we have evolved into so much more and I hope we continue to.

Lets take Clay's light and shine it to those who need it most instead of dancing in it all by ourselves. I simply want to allow those in need to talk without being bashed down for thier feelings. Long taught predjudices die hard. . . . lets put up with them and allow them to die a slow death. I see posters here I never thought would stay. Let's hold them to us as family and help them on their road of discovery. That's all I ask. Don't go elsewhere and say those people have no respect for Clay Aiken. . . thats just not true. They are just willing to listen to a friend in the hopes of enlightening them. Its how the world learns. I personally don't want to live in a cookie cutter, everyone thinks the same kind of world. I want to learn from others and hope they learn a bit about love from me.

~~

Quote :

will request though that since there are already over 140 reads of this thread that it NOT be edited or deleted. That way when 140 more people read it, nothing will be misstated or misrepresented elsewhere (since we see that happening a lot these days).

please explain

Quote :

You and Cincy have always had a problem and she has been told more than once to leave the board it really is not far that any of us have to leave for the only reason I can see for anyone leaving is they are no longer a Clay fan.

Mary

Thats not correct. Cincy has left of her own accord a number of times. I'm sure she can remember better. I do think I asked her to leave just once. I'm not even sure about that.

I am not asking her to leave now. What was said to her was said off board and she chose herself to bring it here.

Morgan Rowan wrote:

Quote :

will request though that since there are already over 140 reads of this thread that it NOT be edited or deleted. That way when 140 more people read it, nothing will be misstated or misrepresented elsewhere (since we see that happening a lot these days).

please explain

There have been a lot of "views" of this thread even if people are not posting a response. I would prefer that things said here be left in the open, so that they are not misquoted or misinterpreted elsewhere....either among the members in their own private discussions or emails.

I believe in the past, you have sometimes started these things and then deleted them when you don't get the response you are looking for (or for a variety of other reasons). I would just prefer THIS not be one of those times.

Adding hugs to Mary. I know you love this board and EVERYONE here.

I dont remember doing that sorry

I do remove angst posts after they have served their purpose which of course is my call.

Why on earth would something have to be quoted later after its been worked out

and where ?

I have to say cincy you sound like you are gearing up for battle.

Just to let you know cincy - the page has been viewed by a lot of people repeatedly. We dont even have 150 members.

Only 22 people have logged in in the time its been here and thats most of our active members.

just for information sake

Morgan Rowan wrote:

I dont remember doing that sorry

I do remove angst posts after they have served their purpose which of course is my call.

Why on earth would something have to be quoted later after its been worked out

and where ?

I have to say cincy you sound like you are gearing up for battle.

No battle at ALL!!! Since you have NOT apologized to me in any way, I just don't see it as being worked out. You misquoted and misrepresented me in this thread through your references (lies) to what I said in our emails and that I "would not want my friends to see that side of me." That infers that there were things I said in those emails that were unkind to anyone here EXCEPT YOU. Not true...not true at all and I am tired of that inference.

You say here you "love" me even though I have been so hurtful, mean and unkind to you. But your ACTIONS speak otherwise, as well as your words. I do not lie....I do not LOVE you. Never have (well, maybe a bit at first)...most likely never will. As Mary stated, you and I are just too different for any real charitable feelings to exist.....just a fact of life. The aging hippy in me wants to "love" you, but the realist says no, no no. But I will make a better attempt to understand you and co-exist if you will make an effort to moderate the board fairly and not (as you even admitted last night) from a standpoint of not reading everyone's posts and therefore coming down harder on mine (since you read them obviously, here there and everywhere) with a fine tooth comb.

No battle at ALL!!! Since you have NOT apologized to me in any way, I just don't see it as being worked out. You misquoted and misrepresented me in this thread through your references (lies) to what I said in our emails and that I "would not want my friends to see that side of me." That infers that there were things I said in those emails that were unkind to anyone here EXCEPT YOU. Not true...not true at all and I am tired of that inference.


Wowzer

Say what ???? nope I havent apologized to you. What exactly should I apologize to you for ? This post had NOTHING to do with you directly it had to do with the fall out of some people not posting.

helllo I said nothing bad about you.

You were mean TO ONLY ME in your emails and I hope you realize you just admitted it. You were DEAD WRONG to offer to send private communications out to others - I heard no apology from you there by the way.
I did NOT in any way infer that you said anything against anyone else. I did not misquote you - I didnt ' quote ' you at all. You need to get a grip. . . seriously.

~~~~~~~~~~~

You say here you "love" me even though I have been so hurtful, mean and unkind to you. But your ACTIONS speak otherwise, as well as your words.

What actions ?

And is being honest mean I don't love you ?

I do not lie....I do not LOVE you. Never have (well, maybe a bit at first)...most likely never will.

Would you like to see emails where you actually use the word love for me Cincy ? But no matter its all good you dont have to love me.

As Mary stated, you and I are just too different for any real charitable feelings to exist.....just a fact of life. The aging hippy in me wants to "love" you, but the realist says no, no no. But I will make a better attempt to understand you and co-exist if you will make an effort to moderate the board fairly and not (as you even admitted last night) from a standpoint of not reading everyone's posts and therefore coming down harder on mine (since you read them obviously, here there and everywhere) with a fine tooth comb.

Nope . . . no deals. Its my board and I'll moderate it, with help from a few trusted people, the way I see fit. You either stay or go. You can choose for now. But I'm not fond of conversing with people who are cruel and have low opinions of me so I'll have to give this some thought when I'm feeling a bit calmer so I didn't do anything out of anger.

Cincy please explain where in this statement I infer that you said anything mean about anyone but me

Quote :

Cincy you are very cruel to me. You are mean. I have no idea what you think someone will see in those emails to embarrass me. I also stand by what I said. But Cincy, honestly, for your own good I would not send them to anyone because its a side of yourself you really shouldn't show to your friends. You were plainly vindictive and mean. Even I was shocked at your meanness.

Thanks, I'll be stayin!!

You're welcome

I never asked you to leave

And for the hundreth time

This post was not about YOU, cincy.

Yes it included you and every other member of the board. You chose to jump in and make it about you.

.....well I don't know what the h*** is up, but I'm stayin' too!

i've been under the weather and finally up to reading some posts...and frankly, i'm very disappointed reading this thread. i care for both Morgan and Cincy, but as i see it? Morgan made one of her [a little too] frequent 'things are very quiet here' posts, inferring that there was something unpleasant going on behind the scenes, w/o mentioning any names. because no name was mentioned, i took Morgan's post as a general lobby to rev up the members to stop by and post more often, preferring not to probe on what else might be going on.

...then Cincy chimed in. Cinc, if you hadn't, neither i nor anyone else would have known what had taken place thru private emails betw you and Morgan... and what DID transpire in that regard is no one else's business.
imo. to be honest, i don't care what was said between the two of you...and i don't think it would be right to post private discussions here.


it seems this situation has escalated more than it needed to, and i'm sorry others, myself included, have been drawn into it. what's going on between Morgan/Cincy should stay within private mails, hopefully with the issues being resolved in time. we don't need to see this sort of negativity between members in print. it's unsettling, not to mention a little sad to see 2 popular but strong-willed members at each others' throats. i hope you both can find a way to continue to mix into conversations on other topics...and if Cincy or anyone else chooses to post at other boards, it's their perogative. as for what is mentioned about our board on another by Cincy or anyone else... i think it would be up to Morgan to weigh the gravity of that and act on it.. as to how it affects the general operation/mood of this site.
my feelings about Clay are not influenced by how others are viewing his current path nor do i care whether anyone agrees with what i'm feeling. i belong to this board because this is where i come to socialize with many i've grown very fond of, and for the latest Clay News. i may not feel as energized emotionally about him as i once did, but i still support him wholeheartedly. i post what comes naturally, because i am that comfortable with everyone here. it's unrealistic to expect all to agree on opinion 100% of the time, but i'd like to believe we can work around what we disagree on respectfully...as we have done so many times before.

can we all get back to healing now, while enjoying each others' company?? love to all. and i mean that most sincerely.

oh. you guys made up already?? wellll disregard my long-winded post, then << I LOVE THAT NEW EMO!!

cincy I posted the emails as you ' asked '

Quote :

Either you post the emails or I will. I have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of or to hide. You are really losing it, Morgan. Wow! Just Wow.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry coo - I posted before reading your nice letter. You are right - it shouldnt be aired in public but it was stated to me to do it or she would so I did.

I dont like it either. If I wanted to air it on the board I would have.

Thanks for putting things in perspective that you simply saw it as one more use it or lose it over the top angsty post from me.(my words not coos )

Sorry bout that - its just who I am and its the truth - I'm not at all sure I want to continue to devout so much time to something that is turning so ugly at times.

you posted the mails off the general board. ok, then.
i won't be reading it.

Given the definition of "mutiny", of course I would think the original thread was a result of our emails last night:

Mutiny: Open rebellion against constituted authority, especially rebellion of sailors against superior officers.

Sorry, coocoo wasn't involved in that email exchange or doesn't want to read it, but I believe Morgan's intent was clear simply by her choice of the word "mutiny"....if it was just about the atmosphere of the board and lack of posting, the word "mutiny" would not have been used. That coupled with the reference to things being said about CAPCH on other boards let me know she was writing in response to our email exchange and wanted to garner some sympathy for her hurt feelings.

It is what it is.

It did in part concern you cincy as well as everyone else on the board. Your definition of mutiny proves nothing that relates to you cincy - it was just a word I choose to describe the exit of members and the lack of posts. Can we please get past the its all about you in this thread. I spoke very plainly about my feelings for ALL of the fans on all of the boards. If I'm asking for sympathy, ok I am. Feel sorry for me cause I put so many hours into building something I feel is falling apart. Feel sorry for me and post . . . its all good with me. I dont care why they post I just want them to stay together. If my ways offend you then you don't have to participate. Its that simple.

Rereading the original post here, I'd like to highlight a few thoughts in it, that to me, were indications that the thread was NOT just directed at one person - I'll say that sort of in defense of Morgan AND Cincy OR anyone else who might have thought the thread was singling them out:

Quote :

It seems like the board is made up of fans.

Well, of course you say.

But fans of who ? Clay. . . . sure. . . we are all fans of Clay in some degree, that's why we are here.

But more than that the board seems to be split between fans of certain posters. Thus when certain posters are not here the rest follow.

AND....

Quote :

I thought we could all discuss things as a family and hold onto each other in the storm and slowly pull a few onto the life rafts. . . a few that might never have seen the light of love and tolerance that Clay is trying to shine for them. But it appears not. Its love him or follow those that blindly do. Its ok. Its simply entertainment after all. Its not real friends and real people who have stood by your side and worked to make a better world. Its not real people who have spilled thier hearts and been there for you when you needed them.

That's what I focused on when I read it. So maybe I'll ask - Morgan can you define these pieces even more? So that the focus again is on your original statement, especially now that you've posted the Morgan-Cincy exchanges on another thread???

Quote :

It seems like the board is made up of fans.

Well, of course you say.

But fans of who ? Clay. . . . sure. . . we are all fans of Clay in some degree, that's why we are here.

But more than that the board seems to be split between fans of certain posters. Thus when certain posters are not here the rest follow.

I feel the board is being split into cliques like high school. I say something and my trusted few get out the pom poms to agree. Someone else says something and their little clique friends jump in to support them. Off board I imagine they email each other in little secluded groups ( i'm only guessing there ) Some feel one prolific poster can say no wrong and do no wrong and they will jump in no matter what that person says and when that person doesnt post . . .they dont either. Am I speaking of Cincy here because I'm sure she's getting ready to jump in and say I am . . .


yes I am.

BUT !!!!!!!!
I'm ALSO speaking of me
and
Basket
and any other prolific thread starters with an ' in group '
If one of us and a few others of course dont post then the board falls quiet. Our supporters put away thier pom poms and go elsewhere. That breeds competition and dissention.

If I'm trying to get everyone on my side against someone else it destroys the board. If someone else is doing that it will have the same effect. That's not to say you cant have one poster that others in general just don't like and complain about. That happens but you don't need to feed into it and try to make it grow or round up the troops to go after them.

This isnt the OFC where some might try to get people to read your blogs, recognize you or you might be vying for most recognizeable fan. This is Click here . . . a family thats seen life and death and pain and love and change.

I want the factions to stop and I want anyone who might be trying to create a faction to stop. I dont want people to have loyalties to anyone. I want them to have loyalties to the board, loyalties to friendships created on this board as a whole.

I'm sure I offended someone in that. I always do . . . geesh.

Quote :

I thought we could all discuss things as a family and hold onto each other in the storm and slowly pull a few onto the life rafts. . . a few that might never have seen the light of love and tolerance that Clay is trying to shine for them. But it appears not. Its love him or follow those that blindly do. Its ok. Its simply entertainment after all. Its not real friends and real people who have stood by your side and worked to make a better world. Its not real people who have spilled thier hearts and been there for you when you needed them.

I have always felt Clay had a mission. . . ordained by God maybe, or fate or just he's special and can do it. . . I don't know but he sheds light where he walks. He brings light to causes and suddenly we see things we never saw before. I have two struggling children and lived every day of my life with special needs unfulfilled for them but still I see things differently when he sheds light on them. I am in awe of his ability to relate to those lost like Mike Bubel or others I've seen him truly connect with. I always thought I treated all people the same but in watching him I realized that although I go through the motions the warmth was not fully there or communicated as well as it could be and now I think I do better.

I think his decision to be truthful about his sexuality will have a far reaching effect. Clay has said he didn't want to preach to the choir and boy he sure didn't this time did he. He announced he was gay in the middle of a huge group of mostly by the book Christians of an advanced age where it just might be a little harder to accept. But where Clay walks, light follows and I'm finding it amazing to see the eyes open and the hearts accept maybe for the first time that not all gay men are predators, child molestors or sexual deviants. No, here is one gay man who is loving, trusting, beautiful and walks in the grace of God. That's not going to happen over night. Clay's light is sometimes slow moving magic and I want to make sure those clinging to the life rafts have some time to climb in. I get upset with some of the posts all over the Claynation pushing those people back into the water. Don't those people demanding that everyone see Clay their way realize the priceless chance they have to really produce change. Reaching out to someone who's eyes are beginning to open will help assure that Clay's life is all it should be and that Parker gets a fair chance also.

ok off my soap box

i hope it helped a bit

I haven't read this thread only your first post Morgan and I am clueless. I apparently haven't been reading the right threads lately or something because I have no idea what you're talking about.
Why are you always wanting to close the board down? Every time I read one of these posts by you, I get an overwhelming feeling of sadness because I'm so afraid that one of these days you're actually going to do it. I love everyone here and I would feel so lost and lonely if the board disappeared.

I don't know what I've missed lately but I hope it all works out, because I don't want this board or anyone in it to go anywhere.

Ok, then!!!

See, that explains it all a little bit clearer for me. And explains how at least a good portion of that original post was pretty much directed at most/all of us. I GET IT.

(that's a response to part one of your "rebuttal" - cool! This is like a Presidential debate! )

Part two of your rebuttal:

I think while we are all "special" and God has put us all here for a reason, that there are "some" who are almost "chosen" - to spread special light to those around them. Clay is one of them - really, I believe that.

Remember, your little heart lights from years ago? This is the image I got when I read your explanation above.

The lights were shining bright when all of a sudden, the boat tipped overboard and all the heart lights were underwater - slowly some emerged, shining quietly, but bright. Slowly, more of then are resurfacing. Some, may be lost in the sea. Some may still resurface. But, overall, the heart lights ARE still shining. Hopefully, those who choose, will help those light still struggling to be slowly pulled back into the boat. But the heart lights are shining, just as Clay showed us this weekend, he still shines.

Not going for mushy, but that's the picture you painted for me.

Cherie

I dont mean to make you feel uncomfortable but I do mean to spur you and others into action. The board is only as strong as its members. It's difficult for me to devote so much love and attention to something that causes me so much pain. Sometimes I just want to give up. Am I looking for attention ? You betcha and I'm not above admitting it. I need the ourpouring of love and support that comes from this to keep me going. Who knows maybe one of these days everyone will say so what - go for it. The few that have reassured me on this thread is a start at least.

I'm not a business. This board is a hobby. When it stops being fun its really hard to keep it going. Sorry to frighten you I surely don't mean to. It scares me too.

Quote :

The lights were shining bright when all of a sudden, the boat tipped overboard and all the heart lights were underwater - slowly some emerged, shining quietly, but bright. Slowly, more of then are resurfacing. Some, may be lost in the sea. Some may still resurface. But, overall, the heart lights ARE still shining. Hopefully, those who choose, will help those light still struggling to be slowly pulled back into the boat. But the heart lights are shining, just as Clay showed us this weekend, he still shines.

you made me cry.