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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: Final Presidential Debate   Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:55 pm

Well?
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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Wed Oct 15, 2008 10:57 pm

And by the way! Joe Plumber lives in Toledo!!!!!
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Susan
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Wed Oct 15, 2008 11:22 pm

Much much better debate tonight. McCain was back on his game. I even tolerated Obama without much difficulty. I agree with Obama on one issue - abortion. The government should have no say so in that matter whatsoever IMO.

No more acc for me. My mind is made up.

it's kind of a liberating feeling bliss
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:19 am

abasketclayse wrote:
And by the way! Joe Plumber lives in Toledo!!!!!

abasketclayse wrote:
And by the way! Joe Plumber lives in Toledo!!!!!

Since it's all about Joe the Plumber.....it would have been nice if John McCain got the Wurzelbacher name right (he called him Wurtzeberger). Minor detail, but you would think if he was gonna bring him up so much, he'd get the name right.

Anyway, the Wurzelbachers are a plumbing family. I can remember when the ex was in the plumbing supply business being friends with their families here in Cincinnati. Good family; great people. I thought the honest answers Barack gave Joe there in Toledo were straightforward. They may not have been what Joe wanted to hear, but he gave it to him straight up.

The only poll I have seen that has much meaning is the independents. Most Dems and Reps minds were not changed by tonight's debate. But the poll I saw gave the debate to Obama by 22 percentage points. That's a huge blow for McCain.

If I were McCain, I'd leave the dirty politics alone and start hammering the fact that a Democratic legislature and a Democrat in the Presidency is an unbalance of power. That seems to be a point that would sway some undecided/independent voters.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:22 am

I was proud of John McCain tonight. He put his message out there, no more sticking to the script. I thought Obama was polished, but all I kept hearing from him is spend spend spend. Dang. Not what our country needs.

I completely support John McCain's stand on abortion. Over 800,000 babies were aborted in 2004 (the last year data is available). In 1990, it reached almost 1.5 million babies killed in one year. It's our national shame.

But even if we separate this issue....there's no logical way that Obama can keep his promises. He cannot cut taxes, increase spending and lower the deficit. It can't be done. What he WILL do is say, I wanted to do this, but President Bush left a legacy....blah blah blah. He'll break his promises on Bush's legacy, never taking responsibility for the irresponsible promises in the first place.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:28 am

Renee wrote:
I was proud of John McCain tonight. He put his message out there, no more sticking to the script. I thought Obama was polished, but all I kept hearing from him is spend spend spend. Dang. Not what our country needs.

I completely support John McCain's stand on abortion. Over 800,000 babies were aborted in 2004 (the last year data is available). In 1990, it reached almost 1.5 million babies killed in one year. It's our national shame.

But even if we separate this issue....there's no logical way that Obama can keep his promises. He cannot cut taxes, increase spending and lower the deficit. It can't be done. What he WILL do is say, I wanted to do this, but President Bush left a legacy....blah blah blah. He'll break his promises on Bush's legacy, never taking responsibility for the irresponsible promises in the first place.

I believe he has said that much of what he proposes can be paid for by bringing our troops home from Iraq. That will fund many of his projects. And he has said 95% of people's taxes will not increase (not a cut, just not an increase.) So, it's a question of priorities to some extent. Also, there are the increased taxes that will come from the corporations making more than $250,000 a year. Those companies' tax base will on average increase from 36% (that they are paying now) to 39% on their profits. Doesn't sound like much until you figure how many companies that is and how many millions of dollars over $250,000 we are talking about. In addition to all that, if he is able to put more people back to work (through increased manufacturing of energy efficient automobiles here in the US and other energy producing jobs, for example),there will be even more monies available. Yes, a small percentage of companies may decide to move their corporations overseas, but their CEOs and other stockowners are not likely to give up their U.S. citizenship, so that offset would be minimal at best.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:43 am

CinC wrote:

I believe he has said that much of what he proposes can be paid for by bringing our troops home from Iraq. That will fund many of his projects. And he has said 95% of people's taxes will not increase (not a cut, just not an increase.) So, it's a question of priorities to some extent. Also, there are the increased taxes that will come from the corporations making more than $250,000 a year. Those companies' tax base will on average increase from 36% (that they are paying now) to 39% on their profits. Doesn't sound like much until you figure how many companies that is and how many millions of dollars over $250,000 we are talking about. In addition to all that, if he is able to put more people back to work (through increased manufacturing of energy efficient automobiles here in the US and other energy producing jobs, for example),there will be even more monies available. Yes, a small percentage of companies may decide to move their corporations overseas, but their CEOs and other stockowners are not likely to give up their U.S. citizenship, so that offset would be minimal at best.

Well, Cinc, since this is something that either will or will not play out right in front of our eyes, let's just say I hope you're right; I fear I am.

I'm not giving up, though. I think there's a quiet groundswell for McCain, the kind of voter who goes to the polls but doesn't participate in pre-election polls. That's the group that got Bush the win in the last election. Every single poll had Kerry winning...but he didn't.

Hope springs eternal... Tnkbell

I've got the flu, so I'm off to bed. More tomorrow my dear dear friends, who can actually debate without insult, who make me mad but make me think, and who never call ME or each other names in these debates. I think you're wonderful, even if you are grossly misguided Obamatrons!

JOKING!!!!!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:56 am

Actually as of October 31, 2004, Bush was projected to beat Kerry.

http://people-press.org/report/232/slight-bush-margin-in-final-days-of-campaign


But HOPE does spring eternal.....I just HOPE my guy wins!
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 8:53 am

Anyone ever hear of the Bradley Effect?
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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:00 am

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2008/10/the_bradley_effect_selective_m.html
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:11 am

paminhlwd wrote:
Anyone ever hear of the Bradley Effect?

Do I think it exists in 2008? Unfortunately. But gratefully, not to the extent it existed in 1982. Thank God.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:16 am

I am grateful results should it doesn't have the effect it once did but in certain states I think if does still exist, but to what extend is the question.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:19 am

paminhlwd wrote:
Anyone ever hear of the Bradley Effect?

yes and the news is saying its about 5 percentage point that you ususally see. I'm still hoping for a mccain/palin victory. I think its a long shot but I'm praying hard and working hard. I am sick to think of a government under Obama. Sorry its how i feel.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:31 am

amainachen wrote:
paminhlwd wrote:
Anyone ever hear of the Bradley Effect?

yes and the news is saying its about 5 percentage point that you ususally see. I'm still hoping for a mccain/palin victory. I think its a long shot but I'm praying hard and working hard. I am sick to think of a government under Obama. Sorry its how i feel.

No problem and I totally understand ht how you feel cuz I feel the same way about a McCain/Palin administration. Should my guy win this time, all I can tell ya is eight years is a LONG time to be dissatisfied.....I can't imagine doing four more.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:43 am

CinC wrote:


No problem and I totally understand ht how you feel cuz I feel the same way about a McCain/Palin administration. Should my guy win this time, all I can tell ya is eight years is a LONG time to be dissatisfied.....I can't imagine doing four more.

Cincy, honest to God, dissatisfaction isn't what I'll feel if Obama is elected. I fear for our country, down to my bones. I fear his naive foreign policies will lead to complete open warfare in the middle east; I see open attacks on Israel, which will lead to world war. I see taxes rising and spending increasing, pushing our country into a depression . I also see our government sliding headfirst into socialism, and that's nowhere I ever wanted to see our country.

Honest to God, Cincy...I fear for our country.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 9:55 am

Renee wrote:
CinC wrote:


No problem and I totally understand ht how you feel cuz I feel the same way about a McCain/Palin administration. Should my guy win this time, all I can tell ya is eight years is a LONG time to be dissatisfied.....I can't imagine doing four more.

Cincy, honest to God, dissatisfaction isn't what I'll feel if Obama is elected. I fear for our country, down to my bones. I fear his naive foreign policies will lead to complete open warfare in the middle east; I see open attacks on Israel, which will lead to world war. I see taxes rising and spending increasing, pushing our country into a depression . I also see our government sliding headfirst into socialism, and that's nowhere I ever wanted to see our country.

Honest to God, Cincy...I fear for our country.


There is nothing I can say to alleviate your fears, Renee. Other than to ask if you are better off now than you were eight or four years ago. A change in policies and how our country deals with all aspects of the current world and national conditions is absolutely necessary. With Obama, that change will be more obvious and quicker than under McCain. But on the other hand, if McCain wins and even gives us a modified version of the Bush years, you can count on a depression, more war and out of control agencies catering to the extremely wealthy at the expense of the majority of our citizens. It won't be easy...but with Obama and a Democratic congress, there is hope that it can be done. Obama loves this country and can bring qualified people with new and progressive ideology to his cabinet.

90 days or so to go.....get out there and work for your guy since you feel so strongly. California is a blue state that McCain needs (he actually needs ANY blue state) to win.


In the end though, it all works out. I hope your fears will ease though....I really DO know how it feels.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:37 am

Well McCain is not Bush and this change you speak about may not be change for the better. I won't vote for someone just on that promise. I am also scared to death of a inexperienced and sometimes naive sounding candidate as our commander in chief with Congress backing him up. I just hope and pray all these avid Obama supporters come to their senses when they step into the voting booth and vote for someone who doesn't need on the job training.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:40 am

paminhlwd wrote:
Well McCain is not Bush and this change you speak about may not be change for the better. I won't vote for someone just on that promise. I am also scared to death of a inexperienced and sometimes naive sounding candidate as our commander in chief with Congress backing him up. I just hope and pray all these avid Obama supporters come to their senses when they step into the voting booth and vote for someone who doesn't need on the job training.

Our "senses" and our sensibilities are just fine, thanks. Very Happy
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:44 am

I feel totally at ease voting for Obama, Lots of new people go into "jobs" without training and make a success out of themselves and help others succeed along the way....I am not saying that being the President of the United States is equal to a minimum wage job....but Mccain hasnt been a "President of the United States" either...so wouldnt it be fair to say he is inexperienced also ??

just my totally non educated in politics opinion for the day LOL

truly I love reading all this and the respect you show one another.....GOOD JOB EVERYONE !!!

I AM LEARNING SOOOOO MUCH RIGHT NOW

love u
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:48 am

If the job for president was chosen by one person or a company like other jobs whose resume would be more impressive?. I think Obama's would be pretty thin compared to McCain.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:54 am

Im just saying...if it was like that (and believe me I know its not) I have gone to job interviews and gotten hired even above people with tons of experience in the field...I think drive, personality, expectations, how one presents themselves....those things do matter, and right now in my opinion and what I am voting for is based on hope, and as with the current "Leader" we have has in my opinion let me down, I am ready for change, something more hopeful and inspiring, I just dont find that with Mccain in my own views...but I respect him and those who support him...

everyone has to learn at one time or another, and well like I said it is NOT the same as the presidency....but just a thought I had.....I think Obama will do what he says he will do, I think he will do it well, and I think he has a good chance of proving it soon....

I pray the best man for the job wins.....either way I just want CHANGE
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 11:54 am

Quote :
If the job for president was chosen by one person or a company like other jobs whose resume would be more impressive?. I think Obama's would be pretty thin compared to McCain.

Really, not trying to make waves or say anything about McCain here, just taking your question to the next level....

.... if McCain was applying for a job, no matter what his resume, he wouldn't be hired because he is well beyond retirement age. He would have been eased out of the employment market 10,15 years earlier. I know 70 yo retired managers with great resumes who are bagging groceries in my grocery store.
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:15 pm

Just a friendly reminder to avoid bashing of any candidate or voter's opinions..... Shocked
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:20 pm

I got you basket ....please if I ever go over any line or what I type appears to be bashing, send me a note and I will fix it, as it is never my intention to bash anyone...Im really really new to the whole political scene...and I try to choose my words carefully...so please let me know any time what I say might look to you as if Im bashing and I will fix it :)

Im here to learn really but once in a while I feel the need to express a view point...

love u
heder
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PostSubject: Re: Final Presidential Debate   Thu Oct 16, 2008 12:25 pm

Heder, you're fine! wink

I just was getting a sense of impending " mad " so thought I'd just post a gentle reminder..... wve
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