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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:05 am

Surely you've heard the story about the woman in CA who gave birth to octuplets this week (watch out Jon and Kate!) and who apparently also has 6 children at home already - ages 2 to 7 (some multiples in those 6 also).

I was hearing some stuff on the news this morning really questioning the choices here - I'm going to admit I was listening fully as I was getting myself and the kids ready to leave this morning - but apparently, for one, people are questioning why the fertility docs would agree to implants so many eggs into a woman who already had 6 children. Apparently there are some family issues too - I don't know if the woman is single or married, but perhaps the family is in bankrupcy etc.

I know they showed the family home - a 2-3 bedroom home that will now house 14 children and 3 adults (?).

What do you know about this story (especially the CA people) and what do you think about it?

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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:58 am

I think they are nuts affraid

BUT, if one can name their kid Adolph Hitler in today's world, then you should certainly be able to have 16 kids if you want them. Now, having them and knowing you're going to have to depend on the government to help you support them is wrong IMO. Have a 100 kids if you want, but you should be able to care for them yourself.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 11:35 am

I heard the father (not sure if they are married or not?) of the children was about to be deployed back to Iraq. And the girl lives with her parents. I think the situation is crazy.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 12:55 pm

Now I want to look it up and get more information. I didn't know they already had 6 kids at home! Damn, and I would do anything right now to just have 1.

There is another family they have on TV all the time that just had their I think 17th child by natural birth, no fertility drugs or anything. I want 6 (well right now 1 would be nice), but would never have nearly 20! Unless maybe I was Brad and Angelina and could afford 10 nannies to help lol
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 2:12 pm

Yeah Paula the "17" family is now "18" - that's the Duggars.

I heard conflicting info on whether the person going back to Iraq was the baby's father or the birth mother's father.

I question the fertility center that implanted 8 eggs into a woman who already had 6 children.

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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 6:39 pm

So this should crack you all up. I was in line at the post office with about 100 other people, ok so like 20, other people. And we all got to talking about this lady who has the 8 babies and already had 6. One of the ladies in line said that the doctors offered to remove some of the fertilized eggs, because they have the option not to implant them all, and she refused. So I guess it wasn't up to the doctors it was up to her. My question is why were they going through a very expensive procedure to have children, when they already had 6. I need to find more info on this one.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:09 pm

I should stay out of these kind of topics but I just have to say that the multiple-birth mother is in her earlier 30's.

I keep hearing it is her father that is going to work in Iraq. I don't believe he's in the military though. He's no spring chicken. And now he's swearing at the reporters and at the camera.

What I think......this kind of overpopulation at such a time with the economy and all, and already having six children at home, well....I think there's something radically wrong with her. It's stupid and unnecessary and exceptionally irresponsible.

Also don't believe she's married. I believe I heard that she's had all her children by in vitro.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 7:16 pm

I have to agree with you Joe. Seems we all agree on this topic. I don't mind the not married part that doesn't bother me, what bothers me is she already had 6, why have any more, especially in the current economy. If they were really wealthy then maybe, but it doesn't sound like they are, but then how did they afford the invetro, that is very expensive. And if she really wanted more than the 6 she had why not try to adopt some rather than going through that procedure again?

All this said I pray and hope all the little ones are healthy and happy and will remain so.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:30 pm

joechgo1 wrote:
I should stay out of these kind of topics but I just have to say that the multiple-birth mother is in her earlier 30's.

I keep hearing it is her father that is going to work in Iraq. I don't believe he's in the military though. He's no spring chicken. And now he's swearing at the reporters and at the camera.

What I think......this kind of overpopulation at such a time with the economy and all, and already having six children at home, well....I think there's something radically wrong with her. It's stupid and unnecessary and exceptionally irresponsible.

Also don't believe she's married. I believe I heard that she's had all her children by in vitro.

Joe you are correct, it's her Dad that is going to Iraq. He is a contract worker.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:34 pm

Mother of Octuplets Has 6 Other Children

Friday, January 30, 2009

WHITTIER, California , Calif. The woman who gave birth to octuplets this week has six other children and never expected to have eight more when she took fertility treatment, her mother said.

Angela Suleman said her daughter expects a big challenge raising 14 children. The good news, she said, is all the babies appear healthy.

"I looked at those babies. They are so tiny and so beautiful," Suleman told The Los Angeles Times on Thursday.

Suleman's daughter gave birth to the octuplets Monday at a hospital in Bellflower but has requested that doctors keep her name confidential. Media knew little about the woman until a family acquaintance told CBS' "The Early Show" on Thursday that the mother is "fairly young" and lives with her parents and her six children.

Within hours, media had camped out at the family's home in Whittier, where the babies' grandfather pulled up in a minivan in the evening and briefly spoke to The Associated Press. Beside him were two children a 7-year-old and 6-year-old who said they were excited to have eight new siblings.

But the grandfather warned that media may have a tougher time finding the family after the babies are released from the hospital.

"We have a huge house, not here," said the man, who would only identify himself as Ed. "You are never going to know where it is."

The mother also has two children, ages 5 and 3, and 2-year-old twins, neighbors told the Times.

Suleman said her daughter had embryos implanted last year, and after finding out she was pregnant with multiple babies was given the option by doctors of selectively reducing the number of embryos. The woman declined.

"What do you suggest she should have done? She refused to have them killed," Suleman told the Times. "That is a very painful thing."

Dr. Harold Henry said the woman was already pregnant when she came to Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center, and she was counseled about the risks of her pregnancy and on the option of aborting some of the fetuses. Doctors had been expecting only seven babies, but an eighth was born in the cesarean delivery.

The six boys and two girls, the second octuplets born alive in the United States, have garnered worldwide attention as media have attempted to find out more about the mother and her family. Hours after media gathered outside the Whittier home, Kaiser issued a statement on behalf of the mother requesting privacy.

"Please know, in our own time, we will share additional details about this miraculous experience," the statement read. "The babies continue to grow strong everyday and make good progress. My family and I are ecstatic about all of their arrivals. Needless to say the eighth was a surprise to us all, but a blessing as well."

Dr. Mandhir Gupta said seven of the babies were breathing without assistance. One was still receiving oxygen through a tube in his nose.

Seven of the infants were being tube-fed donated breast milk. One of the boys was expected to begin feedings Friday.

All babies continued to receive an intravenous nutritional combination. They were expected to remain in the hospital for several more weeks.

Click here to read Dr. Manny's blog on the dangers of multiple pregnancies.

Some fertility specialists have said the children face increased health risks because they are octuplets and born nine weeks premature. At birth, they ranged between 1 pound, 8 ounces and 3 pounds, 4 ounces.

Doctors say they advise against higher-order births, but acknowledge the decision is not theirs to make.

"Who am I to say that six is the limit?" said Dr. Jeffrey Steinberg, medical director of Fertility Institutes, which has clinics in Los Angeles, Las Vegas and New York City. "There are people who like to have big families."

Dr. James Grifo, professor of obstetrics and gynecology at the NYU School of Medicine, added: "I don't think it's our job to tell them how many babies they're allowed to have. I am not a policeman for reproduction in the United States. My role is to educate patients."
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 9:57 pm

There is something strange about these people. Her father is as rude as can be. I just have a really strange feeling about this woman, her family and the truth behind this story.

I bet you anything they are holding out for an offer from People or some other Entertainment Magazine or TV Show.

There was a OB/GYN on a news show today and she said that a woman her age would normally have maybe one or two Embryo's inserted (or whatever you call it), 10 was a very excessive number of Embryo's in many experts opinion.

Especially since she already had 6 children.....
Other Specialists over the past few day's have also said that it's what they would consider unethical.

The woman already has 6 children, a
7 Year Old
6 Year Old
5 Year Old
3 Year Old
and
2 Year Old Twins


The circumstances surrounding the birth of these 8 babies is all very mysterious.

The Grandfather told reporters yesterday that they the house they are all outside of is not where they will be living, he told them they had a much bigger house and that they (the reporters) would never be able to find it.

Normally when there are multiple births like this the parents and Doctor's usually have a press conference.

I tell you, this woman and her family are holding out for an offer and the highest bidder will get the story and probably pictures (and the name of the Mother)

I think it will be People.....


Last edited by Janey on Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:57 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Fri Jan 30, 2009 10:30 pm

It's a very difficult situation. Many questions. Of course, right now, I pray for the babies health - they are here and they deserve to be healthy.

I'm guessing that the family is not pleased with the negative spin that his resulting from all this. One day, it was a miracle (and still is) but the next there are many, many questions. All deserved. That's an odd answer. That they will be moving to a place you will never find - odd.

Weird thing is, I can kind of see all sides. I believe like Joe, in this economy/world today, how was this a good choice/decision? Like the doctors, is it there decision to decide who gets how many children? (I did hear a couple reports that she may have received the fertility treatments out of country in Mexico...).

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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 12:00 am

Yeah I can see all sides to. It isn't anyone's right to tell someone how many children they can have, but it seems it would have been best for the six children she already had not to have any more especially not 8 more. And I do understand her not wanting to abort any of the fetuses once they were already there because I wouldn't have either, but I just wonder what ever made her have fertility treatments to have 8 more when she already had 6 under the age of 8. When I'm sure she barely has the time or ability to care for the 6 she already had. I just wonder to like Jane said if they did it to get something from others.

I know there were a few who had multiple births who got a house built by Extreme Home Make Over, and they got lots of diapers, and formula, and all that stuff. Which is good for them, but like my mom and I have said when watching some people on TV who have lost their jobs and such get special treatment and help, when there are so many others struggling who don't get it. What makes them pick say one couple to help who has multiple births over someone else.

Like on Ellen the other day there was a lady in the audience who had lost her job and her husband lost his also, and they couldn't make their car payments, so Ellen gave them a car. What makes them give that woman something, when there are thousands of others in the same situation if not worse that don't get special treatment.

I'm not mad they got it, and I'm glad they did, but I don' understand the logic behind it is all.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 2:35 am

I think it's quite OK for a Doctor to refuse implanting that many Embryo's in a woman that is still quite young and obviously managed to get pregnant 5 times before this pregnancy.

I have a feeling that the rumors of her going outside the U.S. to do this is a possibility.

According to the many fertility specialists that have been on several news shows over the past few day's it just doesn't make sense to any of them why any Doctor would implant that many Embryo's knowing she already had 6 children at home.

From all reports so far there is no father. There has been no mention whatsoever of a husband, Partner, Boyfriend.....

According to her Father he is the one that has been providing for her and her 6 children up until now. And he did tell reporters that he was going to be returning to Iraq as a contractor so that he could provide for her and her 14 children.

I am mostly suspicious of their actions since the birth of the little one's. Her father is not at all a pleasant man.

All the reporters were doing was asking him how the babies and Mother were doing and he something like "what do you people want? They are born, they are alive, what more do you want??

They aren't at all like other people we have seen over the years that simply glow from the sheer happiness of the miracle of so many tiny lives (I know this is only the second set of Octuplets born in the US, and third in the world that we know of. One of the other Octuplets born here in the U.S. died a week after birth.

Her Mother said today that there were a lot of people offering to help them out with cribs and other things they may need. And that people were actually gathering stuff.
Her Mother said that her daughter would look at the list of what has been donated and get back to them to let them know what she wants on the list.

I wonder if she appreciates the trouble people are going to in order to help them out?

The only surprise she got after the birth was that there was an extra baby. So she should have been somewhat prepared knowing she was having 7.

Maybe she is another Kate Goslin and feels as if she is entitled. I can't watch that show anymore. They have so used those kids for the almighty dollar. And I can't stand her screaming at the kid's and John being so rough with them when he is mad at them.

Well, I am dying to see if I am right about them staying out of the spotlight until they get a financial offer from someone......

Who do you guy's think would pay the most to have the exclusive?

I think People would.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 3:18 am

Or US magazine.

I don't know it's all craziness.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:03 am

Did anyone happen to see the story on Nightline tonight?

Kate Gosselln from "Jon & Kate Plus 8" was briefly on there in the beginning talking about her children, and some of her experience. She was on again in more detail once again later on in the program.

They went into more details about the mother of the babies. The grandmother told reporters that the 33 year old underwent fertility treatments last year & embryos had been implanted.

Dr. Jamie Grifo stated that he was shocked hearing about that many implants because the guidelines for women under 35 is only supposed to be two embryos per transfer according to their recommendations under the guidelines. He said it was shocking and irresponsible. Multiple embryos/births are at incredible risk, and the extreme risk is that everybody can die (including the mother.)

The risk of death for multiple babies is that half of them won't survive to see their first birthday; they're fourteen times likely to suffer from cerebral palsy; twice as likely to have mental retardation; and twice as likely to have long disability.

They know very little about the circumstances surrounding the conception of the babies. The family is saying very little about the situation.

Court records show that the mother was married for 3 years and was divorced on January 18, 2008.

The neighbors were not supportive! The link of abc.com for tonight's episode wasn't there yet. I'll see if it's there tomorrow, or later today by now.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 10:36 am

All babies were conceived through invitro, and she has no husband, and her mother did not want her to do it..

Story on Yahoo News

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090131/ap_on_re_us/octuplets
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:45 pm

Here is a link to more information (including a news clip) If anyone takes the time to listen to the newslink video, be prepared for the commercial that jumps at you before the actual story comes on

http://abcnews.go.com/Health/WomensHealth/story?id=6774471&page=1

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/WomensHealth/story?id=6770306&page=1


Octuplets' Family Has Bankruptcy History
Grandmother of Octuplets, Who Shares a Home With the Mom of the Eight Babies, Filed for Bankruptcy Last Year
By ALICE GOMSTYN and DAN CHILDS
Jan. 30, 2009

Can the California woman who gave birth to octuplets this week afford to care for them? It's a question being raised anew today with the discovery of court documents showing that the woman's mother, with whom she shares a home, filed for bankruptcy last year.
Photo: What's the cost of raising eight babies?
A California woman gave birth to octuplets on Jan. 27, 2009, a multiple birth record for the second time in history. That means eight times as much love, but will it also cost eight times as much money?
(Getty/ABC News)

Neighbors told ABC News that the octuplets' mother is single, in her 30s and already has six other children. She lives with her mother, Angela Victoria Suleman, who, according to public records, filed for bankruptcy in March 2008. The family lives in a three-bedroom home in suburban Los Angeles.

As of March, Suleman's husband, apparently the octuplets' grandfather, was working in Iraq, according to the bankruptcy filing. The couple's combined monthly income was listed as roughly $8,740, but the filing indicated that Suleman expected their income would rise from her husband's employment. It said that he would earn $100,000 a year. The document did not specify Suleman's husband's occupation, but Suleman told the Los Angeles Times that her husband was a contractor.

Suleman told the newspaper that her daughter had had fertility treatment but never expected the treatment would result in eight babies.

She said that raising 14 children "was going to be difficult."

No matter what your income, giving birth and caring for octuplets is an expensive proposition. The infants' delivery was performed by a team of 46 doctors, nurses and surgical assistants stationed in four delivery rooms at Kaiser Permanente Bellflower Medical Center in Bellflower, Calif., and it likely cost hundreds of thousands of dollars.

Related
Octuplet Mom May Have Already Had 6 Kids
WATCH: Ethics of Octuplets
Eight Babies, 5 Minutes: Hello Octuplets!

"You can think of it as an eightfold increase on a singleton birth," said Steven M. Donn, director of the Division of Neonatal-Perinatal Medicine at the University of Michigan Health System. "By comparison, the mother's care will probably be a bargain."

Costs for the average delivery of a full-term pregnancy range from $9,000 to $25,000, depending on whether the baby is delivered by Caesarean section or vaginally. Eight times $25,000 is a whopping $200,000.

But Donn said the cost of the octuplets' delivery likely exceeded that number because doctors prepared for the risks associated with a multiple-birth delivery.

"For reasons we don't completely understand, risks with multifetal deliveries are greater than [normal births]," Donn said.

The medical costs for babies born preterm, like the California octuplets, which were born nine weeks premature, are also above average.

"The real significant costs come on the pediatric side, particularly when it comes to neonatal intensive care," said Dr. Geeta Swamy, a maternal-fetal specialist at Duke University Medical Center.

A full-term pregnancy lasts from 38 to 42 weeks, according to the National Institutes of Health, and Swamy estimated for babies born at 30 weeks the hospital stay could be "anywhere from six weeks to six months."

For an infant stay in a neonatal intensive care unit, costs can add up to "a few thousand a day," she said.

"So we are looking at probably several hundreds of thousands of dollars for the family. If it is $100,000 per baby, for example, then it would be $800,000 for all eight," Swamy said.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 5:59 pm

When those babies finally (hopefully) leave the hospital, the costs and demands do not end there medically. They will be followed likely by developmental pediatricians etc. likely for at minimum, a couple of years on a regular basis. They will likely have many, many more medical visits than a term "normal" birth. The likelyhood that the kids will need developmental iintervention until they start school (at the very least) is great. All this takes much time, much energy and yes, $$$$ if not from the family but from the state.

All children are deserving of course of the best medical and developmental care (IMO) BUT I have to wonder if these thoughts entered the mind of someone who made this choice, with 6 kids home already....

We all know the time and energy that a couple of kids takes - let alone 14 children, 8 of who are at high risk for special needs in some way.

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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:18 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
When those babies finally (hopefully) leave the hospital, the costs and demands do not end there medically. They will be followed likely by developmental pediatricians etc. likely for at minimum, a couple of years on a regular basis. They will likely have many, many more medical visits than a term "normal" birth. The likelyhood that the kids will need developmental iintervention until they start school (at the very least) is great. All this takes much time, much energy and yes, $$$$ if not from the family but from the state.

All children are deserving of course of the best medical and developmental care (IMO) BUT I have to wonder if these thoughts entered the mind of someone who made this choice, with 6 kids home already....

We all know the time and energy that a couple of kids takes - let alone 14 children, 8 of who are at high risk for special needs in some way.

I have a friend who is in the process of adopting a 3 year old Foster child for whom she has cared for since 2 months old. He's just a premature birth and the things she has to do for him are endless. In the state of CA under the Foster Care program everything is paid for (which is a blessing for her) He has only recently started talking, he has to go to speech therapy, he went through physical therapy for several months, he goes to a special class 5 days a week for children with special needs. He will always be considered a child with special needs. And that is from a normal birth other than being premature. After all that I heard on Nightline last night, these poor little babies are at great risk for a multiplicity of problems. I don't think their mother is thinking with a full deck. Her mother claims that her daughter is obsessed with having children. She definitely isn't looking at the full picture and the possible outcome. Like you said, someone probably didn't even think of these things. This situation is completely mind boggling, and is to the experts in that field as well.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sat Jan 31, 2009 6:45 pm

I did know about the book but had forgotten about it.

I agree with what you say about Kate, based on my impression of her when I could watch on a fairly regular basis. I can't really comment about Jon because I haven't been able to watch it for such a long time. When I was watching, I liked him much more than Kate. Not being aware of recent developments I might have formed a different opinion about him. Not sure.

Thanks for your input!
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:07 am

Whether the grandma is saying this now, or the girls story to her mother is changing this is just getting crazy:

A local CA paper is reporting that the grandmother is now saying ..."that doctors implanted far fewer than eight embryos, but they multiplied." While this can happen (quints, sextuplets etc can often include a set of identical twins), this same woman has repeated said that her daughter had eight embryos transferred. The story is changing already. It will be interesting to see if the true story comes out.

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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sun Feb 01, 2009 1:14 am

Latest news on this unbelievable story.
Apparently this woman is 33 years old. She has been divorced from her husband since January of 2008. So she was single when decided to do this.

Her parents are immigrants from Palestine...
(Not sure if she was born here or Palestine) Her parents have been divorced for 3 years.

Her mother in an interview said she was against her doing this, and told her so. She said that her daughter is obsessed since young with having children.

The mother also told reporters that she has told her daughter that when she comes home from the Hospital she will be moving out (the mother).
She is not hanging around to be part of this circus her has daughter created.

As for that "Big House" I heard her father tell reporters the other day about, I'm pretty sure that's not in any way true seeing as he lost his home and filed for bankruptcy not too long ago.
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:01 pm

Wonder how this woman is going to handle eight babies without her parents' help!!

I read too that she is obsessed with having children. And she's only 33!

She could be poppin' out another 8 in a year from now! uns
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PostSubject: Re: California Octuplets   Sun Feb 01, 2009 2:29 pm

Also read today that she is an educated woman and was working on her Master's Degree fairly recently....it scares me a little that she may not be alright in the mind and that she will have all these children to care for - scares me for them...

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