Cincy asked that these emails be posted

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

I dont see the point but I'll post them anyway for 24 hourse. I want you all to know I would have never shared these personal conversations with anyone except my fellow board management if it had not been asked.

~~~~~~~~~~~
On two other occasions Cincy has said things about me or this board by name on other boards. Both times when faced with it things got tough but we got past it. Now Cincy has posted two somewhat simple posts at Clayversity which taken by themselves are not really a big deal but were very hurtful to me in light of her other posts in other places.

Here are the two Clayversity posts.
Post one which Cincy claims repeatedly is her ONLY post on the subject of her home board.

Hi, everyone here!!! Just wanted to say you will likely be seeing more of me around CV. I had a home board which was actually the first Clay board I came to right after AI and it's where I "met" a couple of you and led to some great friends throughout the years. But recently, it has become a place where I am uncomfortable (won't go into reasons). Anyway, I'm looking to make CV my new home!

Post two which she seems to have forgotten

Thanks for the kind words...I think I am just feeling displaced and knew I'd find love and acceptance here!!! One of the ironies of the past two weeks is finding that people you thought you knew are not. Differing opinions and beliefs aside, the lack of respect and negativity on some private boards is really a sharp contrast from what I find here.

In view of those words which I found hurtful since many of our members at CAPCH are members of Clayversity also ( including me ) I waited until after the gala so she could enjoy it fully and then emailed Cincy.

The emails are below - its too big for one post and part of it disappears when I try to post it on one post.

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

My email to cincy at around 8pm Calif time which makes it later in Ohio.

Cincys emails will be in dark blue

From Morgan

Cincy

I wanted to wait until after the excitement of the gala was past to talk to you a bit. I'm hurt once again by statements you make on the open internet but I can't say surprised. Did it occur to you that I am also a member at Clayversity and have been for many years ? I'm happy you've found a home and comfort there - honestly I am. Its a much busier board and being public won't contain so much angst, I can certainly understand, but is it necessary to betray your friends on Click Here to win thier acceptance over there? Poor Cincy, a refugee from a private board where members have no respect. . . please that's just so hurtful and unnecessary ESPECIALLY when you continue to post on our awful, disrespectful private board as if you are a friend and confidant.

Also you told me that someone gifted you the ticket to the gala so you didnt need mine, but it does not appear from your posts over there its true. You were free to turn down that ticket although considering you knew I got it for you out of friendship and surely can not afford it - it seems kind of tacky to me but again you were free to turn it down. It was an expensive risk I took for you and my decision to do it. You had no obligation to take it of course. I learned my lesson on that one.

Anyway, just wanted to clear the air and hear your side of the story for what its worth. Maybe there is some other private board you were alluding to. . .could happen I suppose.

I just never learn I guess. I'm so very trusting. I am hurt by you again and again and feel our friendship betrayed and yet I hold my hand and heart out to you to be burned once more. I'm such a fool.

Morgan

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

Cincys answer

Where to begin......... Of course, I know you are a member of CV. Most Clay fans are.

Given the atmosphere at the board since Clay came out, I was seriously going to leave CAPCH for a variety of reasons It is at tmes a very negative board. And for me at least, during the "struggle to come to terms" with Clay's sexuality and in many cases hurtful and unkind in the way posts concerning him are voiced. Once you started your most recent and noticeable tirade against me, I had reached a point where it is perhaps no longer worth it for me. Everything I said, you jumped on me for it. For, of all things, posting positively and about Clay. Who would have thunk it....on a Clay Aiken board that I would be censored for taking up for his side and his rights???? And for being actively involved in the political threads. Your posts to me about how "you couldn't be as enlightened as me" or that I "made myself out to be above it all" were extremely hurtful and uncalled for. I was asked by a few members not to leave...that it wouldn't be the same without me. Rather than completely leave, I decided to remain but as a much less involved or active member. I do love Clayversity and although I did not mention CAPCH by name, I do feel it is not the same any more nor that it is my home board. I betrayed no one.....I continue to post at CAPCH because I was asked by friends to remain. I have made no secret on CAPCH that I find and found all the criticisms and speculation about Clay totally distasteful and I still do. It's either a Clay board or it is not. And if it is not, it will not be my "home board" because regardless of other matters discussed, Clay IS the reason I post. To promote him, to promote UNICEF, to promote TBAF. And to associate, for the most part, with fans of a like mind. I am, however, totally uncomfortable with much of what I see and have taken the first steps toward a separation. Will it be a total divorce or will the few people with whom I still feel a kindred spirit be enough to make me want to stay? Time will tell.

Why would you think I wasn't gifted with a ticket????? Also, it was my understanding that no money had exchanged hands when you accepted that ticket....just that you had to find another owner for it which we agreed you would have no trouble finding. If I had known you had actually put out your own money, I would not have put you in that position.

There is no "my side of the story" other than what is posted here. You may think you treat me fair and equitably over there, and of course, it is your board and you run it the way you want, but for a prolonged period I have felt your animosity toward me that is and always has been more than directed toward anyone. We all have private friendships among the members and it was becoming quite the topic of conversation in private emails, so I know it was just not something I imagined or any persecution complex gone awry. At best, I chose to believe you were playing devil's advocate for conversation's sake. But it is no good for me to be as outspoken and opinionated as I am, and then told what I can and cannot say and where. So for the most part, I stayed out of the "struggling board" once you moved it to a top board and just tried to ignore it. So then, you started questioning my "zeal" on the political threads. I posted it was "getting old" and was again asked by other people to not leave.

I also have been waiting until after the excitement of the gala to decide whether I wish to remain. Regardless of how others feel about my staying or leaving. There are things I like about it and things I don't. All things change and it is not the same board it was years ago. And that's okay. But it is no longer the first board I go to or the one I count on for understanding or to be understood. One thing the "struggle" did was show a side of some people that was not what I had thought them to be. There is no controversy for the most part at CV. Rather than, as you suggest, that I am a "refugee" from a board where there is no respect, I am simply a less active member of a board that has lost a lot of its appeal. Enough of a loss to make me not want to post there anymore? That is MY struggle. Time will tell if I will or I won't. I think at least during the Presidential campaign, I will have an interest. But after that, if I see the same type of criticisms of Clay and questioning of his motives and decisions done what I consider a disrespectful manner, I will have to give it more thought and let you know.

Hope that addresses your concerns. Thanks for talking about it OFF the board.

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

From Morgan

Has it occurred to you that those of us with private struggles to put all this in place are not on a real even keel. I've struggled to keep the board alive and find my balance at the same time. I don't feel the same as you - that doesnt make me bad. I can totally accept Clay's sexual preference as a person but as a fantasy its very difficult. Count yourself lucky for not being in that place but as a friend it might be nice if you had some patience with other's that were. That has ZERO to do with accepting Clay. It has to do with silly broken, childish dreams and for others - religious slippery slopes. Your constant telling people that YOU don't feel the same makes them uncomfortable and just as you recieved many emails about me I recieved many about you. So what. You deal with it. So your friend spouts off to you a bit at a rough time. Well that's a good reason to trash her right ?
Others on Clayverstiy know exactly what board you are speaking of and exactly who you are angry with. It's simply not right. I would never go to another board and diss you or anything you had written or published or a board that you ran if you had one.

As for the ticket, ok I understand you didnt think I paid for it. I take responsiblity for that misunderstanding. Sorry I brought it up.

I simply tried to keep you from stopping others from talking because for them to remain fans they needed to talk - even Clay allowed that. As for the political statement, well you bugged me and I said so. Is that such a big deal ? I appreciate you back the guy but damn he's not perfect but you sound like he's the second coming sometimes and it puts me off. I simply said what I was thinking.

You are a very strong personality and sometimes I feel like its a big competition with you. Its like on the board the members have to choose which of us to like better - who writes better - whos funnier - whos nicer, etc etc etc. I think you make that happen, Cincy and its a constant thorn to me. I fully admit that I might be the one competing and making it happen. Could be both of us. Who really knows but bottom line it exists and it makes us argue and fight. I don't like it.

So do what you want. Stay go I dont really care. I see the board I worked so hard to create die off more every day. If you go I'm sure you're fan club will storm off with you. Its ok maybe its just time. I dont need this kind of ugliness in my life where someone I care about and have given so many second chances to for friendship sticks it in my back again. You may not think you did Cincy but I do. And its my feelings that are being hurt so I get to decide.

Its simply mean. But its a free country. Go ahead and have at me. I'm a big girl and I can take it and probably turn the other cheek in friendship cause well. . . I'm stupid.

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

Cincys answer

Cincys answer

Good lord, Morgan.....now you are even making where I choose to post a source of competition. I went back to my CV posts to see what dastardly things I had said about and if it was at all "dissing" . Here is what I said:

Hi, everyone here!!! Just wanted to say you will likely be seeing more of me around CV. I had a home board which was actually the first Clay board I came to right after AI and it's where I "met" a couple of you and led to some great friends throughout the years. But recently, it has become a place where I am uncomfortable (won't go into reasons). Anyway, I'm looking to make CV my new home! I know quite a few of you here, so I feel like I'm not exactly new to the neighborhood, but I look forward to getting to know all of you. I love the respect and friendship here and hope that when you get to know me better, some of that love will extend to me. It already extends from me to you.

Wow, I can see how that would be upsetting to you.......NOT. I said I was uncomfortable and did not go into any reasons. Many are uncomfortable with the OFC but remain. Some are comfortable with CV or Clackhouse....many boards are splintering while members find a place they feel more accepted and comfortable. There is no Pledge of Allegiance as far as I know to whatever role any member chooses to play at any board.

Did it ever occur to you that what you accuse me of doing that made others uncomfortable is exactly what caused my own discomfort? Just as they had and have the choice to stay or go based on their discomfort, I merely stated my own discomfort and desire not to be a part of it. Rather than "argue" with them about their (as you call it) uneven keel or find any rationale in equating their own "silly broken childish dreams" or "religious slippery slopes", I merely choose to spend more time at a board like CV where I don't feel compelled to respond to fantasies that Clay was certainly not responsible for (or to explain the difference between real life and entertainment) or to respond to intolerance in the guise of religion. I have never had any problem with anyone who states they are no longer a fan because of religious beliefs....that I can, of course, respect. But when people want to impose those religious beliefs onto me or others, I also feel compelled to respond. Only to be slapped down in your moderation. So, accepting that authority, I simply chose and choose to find a MORE COMFORTABLE atmosphere (such as the one at CV) where for the most part, members have either moved past or moved on.

Given her criticism of Obama, I would venture to say that people like Renee or Paminhollywood or Amain (just as an example) are just as vocal in their support of McCain as I am of Obama. But do they (for example again) get a public hand slap that THEIR support is too strong or that they seem to think he can do no wrong. I've even stated positively for McCain at times and that if I have to, I can live with him being elected (as opposed to how I felt about George Bush) while they refer to my candidate as a "terrorist", "socialist" or that they fear for our country if he is elected.

But no, actually you DON'T get to decide anything about me simply because your feelings are hurt. I learned years ago with my ex husband not to let anyone make me feel responsible for what they are incorrectly feeling unless their hurt was a direct result of my "ugliness" and not merely them wanting to play the victim. Sorry, but you DO do that. And quite often. As a matter of fact, you are doing it again tonight.

So what is it really???? Are you upset that I went to the Gala and had a great time (when you weren't there); or that I have friends (outside of CAPCH) who share my own views when it comes to Clay; or (since you bought up writing) that Faye has acknowledged things I've written or that an insignificant piece of writing is now a part of a book sponsored by TBAF and Clay? Ask yourself those hard questions while you are feeling the victim? Or is it because YOU feel at times that I AM actually the bigger bliss monkey and even possibly a bit nicer than you are? I am not the one putting this unnecessary sense of competition in the air. When you have had good times, I've shared in your celebration and shared your joy. I've never asked any of your most vocal supporters to choose between you or me. I've always acknowledged your writing abilities; you ARE after all the published author of a book while I have yet to finish the one I started years ago. And sometimes, I am just nice. And politically aware and trying to be politically correct. Deal with it. Not as a competition but just a fact of life.

Sorry for the brutal honesty.

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

From Morgan

The problem is simple in my book cincy

you are mean

I know you dont see it. You truly believe you are the nicest person there could ever be. You are not. You are not a trustworthy friend - at least not to me. You are simply mean quite often and very full of yourself.

You said other things at Clayversity but you choose your most generic post to bring here to cover. Sad really.

Why did I jump on you for the Obama thing and not others - cause I pay more attention to the Obama information because I think hes the better candidate and all the walking on water Mc Cain posts would go right over my head, I barely skim them. But of course cincy - you believe its about you only.

As for your honesty.

“So what is it really???? Are you upset that I went to the Gala and had a great time (when you weren't there);”
Wow mean statement isnt it.

I had a ticket - I could have charged the plane flight and managed somehow to pay for it. I choose not to- I'm not good on my own. Why would I be upset with you. Lots of people went- have I treated them badly for it also ?

“or that I have friends (outside of CAPCH) who share my own views when it comes to Clay”;

so do I

“or (since you bought up writing) that Faye has acknowledged things I've written “
. . .she acknowledges mine all the time also - geesh woman quit the competing, she can like us both.

“or that an insignificant piece of writing is now a part of a book sponsored by TBAF and Clay? “
Geeeessh wowzer - so are lots of other peoples . . . congrats, really. If mine isnt in ther and I assume it isnt it is a bit of a let down because I wrote about Aiden and it would be nice to have him remembered wouldn't it. Other than that . . . its just a fan book cincy and maybe they didnt use anything that wasnt submitted in the original contest. I didn't enter anything. Wow, you are really over the top.

“Ask yourself those hard questions while you are feeling the victim? Or is it because YOU feel at times that I AM actually the bigger bliss monkey and even possibly a bit nicer than you are? “
You surely are not nicer right now

“ I am not the one putting this unnecessary sense of competition in the air. When you have had good times, I've shared in your celebration and shared your joy. I've never asked any of your most vocal supporters to choose between you or me. I've always acknowledged your writing abilities; you ARE after all the published author of a book while I have yet to finish the one I started years ago. And sometimes, I am just nice. And politically aware and trying to be politically correct. Deal with it. Not as a competition but just a fact of life”.

If you ever can get past the ideal cincy you have painted for yourself, you might want to take a hard look at some of this. You probably are a very nice person. But you have been cruel and uppity and mean to me. Now and often. I count too. You speak of me to others in hateful terms in public places. You are mean.

As for me. I admit often I'm not perfect and I'm nowhere near as nice as some of the people on the board have built me up to me. I'm not trying to be perfect or to win anything. I said quite plainly it might be both of us competing or maybe even just me. Why the big explosion of meanness from you ?

You seem to want this friendship over and I'm good with that.

morgan

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

Cincys anwer

"Why the big explosion of meanness from me ? "

Because I was enjoying my evening and you sent me two riduculous and self-serving emails. I have no idea why you are jealous and want to make ME out as this unkind and MEAN person. Please grow up.

I searched ALL my posts at CV and that was actually the ONLY one about the subject...not a generic one. Find one other post on the subject, but I'll tell ya right now. There AREN'T any. All you have to do is search my profile and read all my posts there. Geesh......what are you making such a big deal out of???? Honestly, WHAT IS YOUR PROBLEM?

In your book, I'm mean; in my book, you need professional help. You probably think I am "mean" for saying that, but why in the world would you take an innocent and isolated post from another board and blow it up into this kind of email exchange? It is not the workings of a rational state of mind. I don't know what is truly bothering you, so I ventured a guess or two in the hope you would take a look at yourself. Something obviously happened in the last 48 hours or so to set you off......how the heck do I know?

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

From Morgan

I probably do need professional help because I allow people to treat me the way you have and continued to be thier friend. I'm not jealous of you. You have nothing I want. I wouldn't trade a single thing with you. I'll make a deal with you. I'll grow up and you can get over yourself.

good night, Joan

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

One last comment from each of us
From cincy

I take that to mean you took the time to check my posts at CV and admit there is nothing to base your initial email upon. Correct? Next time, PLEASE check first.

From Morgan

Thats an incorrect assumption.

Admin Number of posts : 16603 Registration date : 2007-01-20

That was it.

I don't know what Cincy expects from posting these but I'll just do as she asks. It's way more drama than I expected but of course I asked for it by posting what I did this morning. So, I take full responsibility for the drama. Well, at least it created some posts I guess. Geesh.

I'm also sorry that I had to delete the original thread I posted with the emails but because of the size of the thread it kicked out a good portion of the post. Thanks for understanding.

Cincy if anything is still incorrect please let me know.

Guest

Morgan Rowan wrote:: That was it.

I don't know what Cincy expects from posting these but I'll just do as she asks. It's way more drama than I expected but of course I asked for it by posting what I did this morning. So, I take full responsibility for the drama. Well, at least it created some posts I guess. Geesh.

I'm also sorry that I had to delete the original thread I posted with the emails but because of the size of the thread it kicked out a good portion of the post. Thanks for understanding.

Cincy if anything is still incorrect please let me know.

Thanks for posting the emails. Once you alluded to them in your prior thread as something I would not want anyone to see, what I "expected from posting them" was that they speak for themselves.

Guest

I just read this entire thread and suddenly I feel like I should be in the back of a GTO with the quarterback of the football team. Do adults still really act this way? I think all of this is so high school drama queen crap and I am sorry that it came down to this. Damn, Clay did a great job of making a lot of friendships and now he has obviously torn some apart. I truly love you both but I think this is just way over the line. hdd