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 So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion

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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:24 pm

Im not love u CinC......
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:29 pm

HEDERLEE wrote:
No it doesnt...but its here in the thread, people are snapping at one another, and every where I turn there seems to be anger and disrespect thrown around....I just need to walk away...too much for me...

not blaming anyone, just getting out before I involve myself in it all, I love everyone here, and just dont feel like talking about politics when it gets so heated...not my thing...

love u ALL not leaving the board haha u all dont get out that easy....its just best for me to stay away from heated discussions that involve hurting one another and saying mean things...I tend to want to defend, and well its best for me to just stay out of it...I wanna keep my friends...your all too precious to me...

Heather, the one true thing I can say about you is that you are a very sensitive and loving person. You do really care, you don't just say it when it's convenient you say you care all the time.

No matter that is going on you try so hard to be as loving as possible to everyone. You warm my heart. We are all lucky people to have you amongst us.

Try not to worry so much. You are such a sweetheart! ht
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:36 pm

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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:43 pm

funny

but um does the title ick anyone else out

Sarah Palin Flowchart

hmm

Why do I have the sinking feeling that the country is about to be seriously influenced by the REAL Sarah Palin flowchart.


ick
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:49 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
funny

but um does the title ick anyone else out

Sarah Palin Flowchart

hmm

Why do I have the sinking feeling that the country is about to be seriously influenced by the REAL Sarah Palin flowchart.


ick


I hope not....have you seen Sarah Bingo Cards?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/onlinewoman/just-out-palin-bingo-for-your-debate-party-vi
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:52 pm

Christmas may be fun this year....check out Beach Blanket Obama

http://www.herobuilders.com/08.htm
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 2:53 pm

I put this in the other thread also. Didn't know where it should go.

Subject: FW: Where is the money coming from? Some things you won't see on the news!


This will take a few minutes to read -- I've been
wondering about the "dark" "unreported"
past of Obama. VERY interesting!

To All My Friends, this is long, but very
important, please take the time to read.

This election has me very worried. So many
things to consider. About a year ago I would have voted for
Obama. I have changed my mind three times since than. I
watch all the news channels, jumping from one to another. I
must say this drives my husband crazy. But, I feel if you
view MSNBC, CNN, and Fox News, you might get some middle
ground to work with.


About six months ago, I started thinking
"where did the money come from for Obama". I have
four daughters who went to College, and we were middle
class, and money was tight. We (including my girls) worked
hard and there were lots of student loans. I started looking
into Obama's life.

Around 1979 Obama started college at Occidental
in California. He is very open about his two years at
Occidental, he tried all kinds of drugs and was wasting his
time but, even though he had a brilliant mind, did not apply
himself to his studies. "Barry" (that was the name
he used all his life) during this time had two r oommates,
Muhammad Hasan Chandoo and Wahid Hamid, both from Pakistan.
During the summer of 1981, after his second year in college,
he made a "round the world" trip. Stopping to see
his mother in Indonesia, next Hyderabad in India, three
weeks in Karachi, Pakistan where he stayed with his
roommate's family, then off to Africa to visit his
father's family.

My question - Where did he get the money for
this trip? Neither I, nor any one of my children would have
had money for a trip like this when they where in college.

When he came back he started school at Columbia
University in New York. It is at this time he wants
everyone to call him Barack - not Barry. Do you know what
the tuition is at Columbia? It's not cheap, to say the
least. Where did he get money for tuition? Student Loans?
Maybe.

After Columbia, he went to Chicago to work as a
Community Organizer for $12,000. a year. Why Chicago? Why
not New York? He was already living in New York.
By "chance" he met Antoin
"Tony" Rezko, born in Aleppo Syria, and a real
estate developer in Chicago. Rezko has been convicted of
fraud and bribery this year. Rezko, was named
"Entrepreneur of t he Decade" by the Arab-American
Business and Professional Association". About two
years later, Obama entered Harvard Law School. Do you have
any idea what tuition is for Harvard Law School? Where did
he get the money for Law School? More student loans?

After Law school, he went back to Chicago.
Rezko offered him a job, which he turned down. But, he did
take a job with Davis, Miner, Barnhill & Galland. Guess
what? They represented "Rezar" which Rezko's
firm. Rezko was one of Obama's first major financial
contributors when he ran for office in Chicago. In 2003,
Rezko threw an early fundraiser for Obama which Chicago
Tribune reporter David Mendelland claims was in strumental in
providing Obama with "seed money" for his U.S.
Senate race.

In 2005, Obama purchased a new home in Kenwood
District of Chicago for $1.65 million (less than asking
price). With ALL those Student Loans - Where did he get the
money for the property? On the same day Rezko's wife,
Rita, purchased the adjoining empty lot for full price. The
London Times reported that Nadhmi Auchi, an Iraqi-born
Billionaire loaned Rezko $3.5 million three weeks before
Obama's new home was purchased. Obama met Nadhmi Auchi
many times with Rezko.

Now, we have Obama running for President.
Valerie Jarrett, was Michele Obama's boss. She is now
Obama's chief advisor and he does not make any major
decisions without talking to her first. Where was Jarrett
born? Ready for this? Shiraz, Iran! Do we see a pattern
here? Or am I going crazy?

On May 10, 2008 The Times reported, Robert
Malley advisor to Obama was "sacked" after the
press found out he was having regular contacts with
"Hamas", which
controls Gaza and is connected with Iran. This
past week, buried in the back part of the papers, Iraqi
newspapers reported that during Obama's visit to Iraq,
he asked their leaders to do nothing about the war until
after he is elected, and he will "Take care of< BR> things".

Oh, and by the way, remember the college
roommates that were born in Pakistan? They are in charge of
all those "small" Internet campaign contributions
for Obama. Where is that money coming from? The poor and
middle class in this country? Or could it be from the
Middle East?

And the final bit of news. On September 7,
2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was
made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim
faith". When questioned, "he made a
mistake". Some mistake!

; All of the above information I got on line. If
you would like to check it - Wikipedia, encyclopedia, Barack
Obama; Tony Rezko; Valerie Jarrett: Daily Times - Obama
visited Pakistan in 1981; The Washington Times - September
7, 2008; The Times May 10, 2008.

Now the BIG question - If I found out all this
information on my own, Why haven't all of our
"intelligent" members of the press been reporting
this? A phrase that keeps ringing in my ear - "Beware
of the enemy from within"!!!
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:19 pm

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

Check out Snopes: Urban Myths.

It's false
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:29 pm

Thanks Spongie.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:31 pm

Quote:"
And the final bit of news. On September 7,
2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was
made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim
faith". When questioned, "he made a
mistake". Some mistake!"

Seen that myself, and that is 100% fact. He did say that and George jumped in and said "Your Christian Faith"
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:34 pm

spongie wrote:
http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/money.asp

Check out Snopes: Urban Myths.

It's false

Also from Wikipedia:

Below is a list of Barack Obama’s friends and roommates who knew him in high school and college.

Imad Husain a Pakistani and Obama's freshman roommate at Occidental. Husain is now a Boston banker.

Mohammed Hasan Chandoo a wealthy Pakistani freind of Obama when he was a freshmam. He is a now a self-employed financial consultant living in Armonk, New York.

Wahid Hamid a wealthy Pakistani freind of Obama when he was a freshma. Hamid and Obama traveled to Karachi, Pakistan after graduation from Occidental and stayed with the family of Mohammed Hasan Chandoo. Hamid is now a vice president at Pepsico in New York City.

They sound pretty harmless to me.



As for Ms. Jarrett, she was born in Iran because her father was setting up a hospital there.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:35 pm

No problem, chel. With all the internet tomfoolery about the candidates, Snopes in not a bad place to go to see if the information is coming from a reputable source. I truly believe that we on this board are honestly tring to make intelligent decisions on the candidates. It helps, when much of the information is twisted, to be able to quickly check things out.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/politics.asp#politics
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 3:44 pm

Janey wrote:
Quote:"
And the final bit of news. On September 7,
2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was
made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim
faith". When questioned, "he made a
mistake". Some mistake!"

Seen that myself, and that is 100% fact. He did say that and George jumped in and said "Your Christian Faith"

Snopes has that as well:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Obama is a Christian. He is not a Muslim.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 5:40 pm

spongie wrote:
Janey wrote:
Quote:"
And the final bit of news. On September 7,
2008, The Washington Times posted a verbal slip that was
made on "This Week" with George Stephanapoulos.
Obama on talking about his religion said, "My Muslim
faith". When questioned, "he made a
mistake". Some mistake!"

Seen that myself, and that is 100% fact. He did say that and George jumped in and said "Your Christian Faith"

Snopes has that as well:

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp




Obama is a Christian. He is not a Muslim.

Sponge,
I lived in the Middle East for many years. Mostly Saudi Arabia. I have many dear friends that are Muslim there, and here in the United States.
As far as Muslims are concerned Barack Hussein Obama, Jr is Muslim. All of my Muslim friends have told me this. Hussein is a Muslim name, and that in itself identifies him as such.

As they explained to me (and I already knew, but wanted to confirm) In Arab/Muslim culture and under Islamic law, if your father is a Muslim, so are you. And once a Muslim, always a Muslim.
You cannot go back. In Islamic eyes, Obama is certainly a Muslim.

I found this out from a friend of mine, Barack Obama was originally named “Baraka.” It is not an African name. It's an Arabic word meaning “blessed” and comes directly from the Koran.

Also, all children born with an Arabic name based on the H-S-N trilateral root (Hussein, Hassan, and others) can be assumed to be Muslim, so they will understand Obama's full name, Baraka Hussein Obama, to proclaim him a born Muslim.

Now this is very important......
All this matters, because Obama once was a Muslim according to Islamic law, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed.

Were he elected president of the United States, this status, clearly, would have large potential implications for his relationship with the Muslim world.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 6:20 pm

The Swahili dictionary lists "barak(a)" as a noun meaning "blessing, prosperity, abundance". The name "Barack" means the same in Arabic, and "blessed" is "Baruch" in Hebrew.

In much the same way you can have a Johann, John, and Sean in three different languages, meaning the same thing. In fact, the name "Baraka" could also be used to say that his name is Hebrew.

Islamic definition of muslim-Those who say the shada and follow the five pillars of Islam. Anyone who do not satisfy the above criteria is non-muslim.

And as someone said, if McCain's middle name happened to be "Hilter", would that indicate who he is as a man and a politician?

Obama is a Christian. He attends Trinity Church of Christ. He is bapitized and raises his family as Christians. All of the Muslin name game, et al is to scare voters by Obama's "otherness."

ETA.
Quote :
All this matters, because Obama once was a Muslim according to Islamic law, he is now what Islamic law calls a murtadd (apostate), an ex-Muslim converted to another religion who must be executed.

The murtadd refers to adult ex-Muslims in (some) Islamic nations, not little boys in the United States.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:14 pm

Sponge, I respect what you are saying. And I have a question for you.

Why would you be scared of Muslims? Why do you consider him being Muslim a Scare Tactic?

Are you afraid that maybe he really is, or was at some point? So what if he is? What would that change for you? Would you still vote for the man you believe in so much. Remember it's the man you are supposed to be voting for, not his religion.

Would you not vote for him if he came out tomorrow and declared that he grew-up Muslim, he attended Islamic Teachings and attended Friday Prayer as has been said by many that knew him during those years.

I love and care for all of my very dear Muslim friends. I rarely use the word "Muslim" Friends when I speak of them, to me they are my friends.

My best friend here in the US is from Libya. And she is an absolute nut case, sooo much fun....And I love her so much.

While we were in the Middle East together we had a blast, lots of us. All different religions, and races we would go to lunch, have dinner parties.

We would take off to Bahrain most weekends, or Dubai, Abu Dhabi or go to Kuwait to visit other friends.
I have lived in several countries, and my years in Saudi Arabia was probably the best time of my life.

I try not to discuss Obama with her. She has very strong feelings about the man, and they aren't good.
As do my other friends, and friends of hers here in the US. He scares them.

The people that many here deny are part of/or were part of Obama's life are not good people, and many of them are Muslim. Even the slum lord, he is from Syria. It scares her because these are bad people.

And when people that are now defending him realize that he has been lying about his past, and his associations with many of these horrible people he will make all Muslims look bad.

They are having a very difficult time understanding why he has through all of his short career surrounded himself with Muslims yet he denies his faith (Their words, not mine)

-------------------------------------------------------------

Back to what I was trying to say in my previous post.

The point I made is the fact that he is considered Muslim according to Islamic Law. He does not have to be a "Pray 5 times a day, or attend Mosque every day" He is Muslim because his Father was Muslim....

Any child born to a Muslim man must, according to Islam, be raised Muslim and "protected" from all other religions

It means nothing to Muslims that he claims to be Christian, he automatically became Muslim the day he was born. Nothing will change that according to Islamic Law....He can say it until he is blue in the face, it changes nothing as far as Islamic Law is concerned.
And it means nothing as far as Muslims are concerned other than he is a murtadd (apostate),

The Name Baraka as I said comes from the Quran, and means Blessed.
When he was in Indonesia he did go to Islamic teachings.
Because his Step-Father was Muslim the Childs religion is automatically the same as the Father's, in this case, his Step-Father was considered his Father. They showed the school records on a Bio I watched on CNN.

Obama has admitted this and said he didn't know why he was registered as a Muslim.

Other religious classes were offered for the children of other faiths.
He also attended on occasion Friday Prayer with his Step-Father. Not every Friday, some Fridays.

I feel sad that you consider something so important a Game. This is no game, this is our future, this is serious.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 9:52 pm

According to the Indonesian Embassy the Besuki School attended by Barack Obama "has never been an Islamic Madrassah type of school." the Embassy also stated that "Sekolah Dasar Negeri Besuki in Menteng, Jakarta, Indonesia has always been a public school. It has never been an Islamic madrassa type of school."


This video will give you even more information:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZ4v7iLnvrQ


Obama's father was an atheist BTW, so he was not "born to a Muslim father. Obama's upbringing in Indonesia will, however, give him knowledge of the customs of Islam, which is in no way a "bad" thing.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:00 pm

In a speech in June 2007, Obama said, "So one Sunday, I put on one of the few clean jackets I had, and went over to Trinity United Church of Christ on 95th Street on the South Side of Chicago. And I heard Reverend Jeremiah A. Wright deliver a sermon called "The Audacity of Hope." And during the course of that sermon, he introduced me to someone named Jesus Christ. I learned that my sins could be redeemed. I learned that those things I was too weak to accomplish myself, He would accomplish with me if I placed my trust in Him. And in time, I came to see faith as more than just a comfort to the weary or a hedge against death, but rather as an active, palpable agent in the world and in my own life. It was because of these newfound understandings that I was finally able to walk down the aisle of Trinity one day and affirm my Christian faith. It came about as a choice, and not an epiphany. I didn't fall out in church, as folks sometimes do. The questions I had didn't magically disappear. The skeptical bent of my mind didn't suddenly vanish. But kneeling beneath that cross on the South Side, I felt I heard God's spirit beckoning me. I submitted myself to His will, and dedicated myself to discovering His truth and carrying out His works." [Speech, 6/23/07]

He sounds pretty Christian to me.

Barack Obama Is Not and Has Never Been a Muslim. Obama never prayed in a mosque. He has never been a Muslim, was not raised a Muslim, and is a committed Christian who attends the United Church of Christ.

Obama's Step-Father Saw Religion "As Not Particularly Useful," But Followed "A Brand of Islam" That Made Room for Animist and Hindu Faiths. Obama wrote in the Audacity of Hope, "When my mother remarried, it was to an Indonesian with an equally skeptical bent, a man who saw religion as not particularly useful in the practical business of making one's way in the world, and who had grown up in a country that easily blended its Islamic faith with remnants of Hinduism, Buddhism, and ancient animist traditions." Obama wrote in Dreams from My Father, "Like many Indonesians, Lolo followed a brand of Islam that could make room for the remnants of more ancient animist and Hindu faiths." [Audacity of Hope, p 204; Dreams From My Father, p 37]

Obama Found Faith During Community Organizing Days. "It was at Trinity United Church of Christ here, in the late 1980s, that Senator Obama says he found religion. Raised in a secular household, with ancestral roots running from Islam to Baptist to atheist, Obama had grown up a skeptic. But Mr. Wright's blend of scripture and social action resonated with Obama, then a young community organizer in black neighborhoods ravaged by steel-mill closings." [Christian Science Monitor, 7/16/07]


So, you see, Jane....Obama is a Christian and a Christian by choice. Never a Muslim. But if he had been a Muslim, I am sure he would say so.....and since I don't believe all Muslims are terrorists, I don't believe that would affect my opinion of him.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:04 pm

I am not "scared of Muslims".

I, too, have friends of the Islamic faith.

The Republicans are playing this fear of the unknown, (read terrorists) when they point out the name of Barack Hussein Obama. They are absolutely tying his name to Saddam Hussein.

This is a game to many, and the game is fearmongering.

Barack Obama is a Christian. Not because I find any other religion objectionable, but because that is what he is.

This is the most important election of our time, and between the economy, the national debt, and the war in the Middle East, the man who is elected to the presidency will have to be a contortionist to make his way through to the other side. I feel Obama is the best man to undertake this formidable task.


Last edited by spongie on Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:00 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:31 pm

Let me just interject here

the title of this thread is FRIENDLY discussion


lets continue to keep it that way
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Wed Oct 08, 2008 10:33 pm

I love this part of Barack's speech A More Perfect Union:

I am the son of a black man from Kenya and a white woman from Kansas. I was raised with the help of a white grandfather who survived a Depression to serve in Patton’s Army during World War II and a white grandmother who worked on a bomber assembly line at Fort Leavenworth while he was overseas. I’ve gone to some of the best schools in America and lived in one of the world’s poorest nations. I am married to a black American who carries within her the blood of slaves and slaveowners – an inheritance we pass on to our two precious daughters. I have brothers, sisters, nieces, nephews, uncles and cousins, of every race and every hue, scattered across three continents, and for as long as I live, I will never forget that in no other country on Earth is my story even possible.

It’s a story that hasn’t made me the most conventional candidate. But it is a story that has seared into my genetic makeup the idea that this nation is more than the sum of its parts – that out of many, we are truly one.
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Thu Oct 09, 2008 12:02 am

Janey wrote:
HEDERLEE wrote:
No it doesnt...but its here in the thread, people are snapping at one another, and every where I turn there seems to be anger and disrespect thrown around....I just need to walk away...too much for me...

not blaming anyone, just getting out before I involve myself in it all, I love everyone here, and just dont feel like talking about politics when it gets so heated...not my thing...

love u ALL not leaving the board haha u all dont get out that easy....its just best for me to stay away from heated discussions that involve hurting one another and saying mean things...I tend to want to defend, and well its best for me to just stay out of it...I wanna keep my friends...your all too precious to me...

Heather, the one true thing I can say about you is that you are a very sensitive and loving person. You do really care, you don't just say it when it's convenient you say you care all the time.

No matter that is going on you try so hard to be as loving as possible to everyone. You warm my heart. We are all lucky people to have you amongst us.

Try not to worry so much. You are such a sweetheart! ht


Jane...I dont know what I did to deserve your kind words...but thank you....Im glad to know that people can see that I really do care, even when it seems Im being a big baby, I just.....I love you ALL I truly do and I get so sad when I see anyone getting hurt in any way...I know we are all adults and politics are a tough thing, just as religion is...so I know it will get heated at times...I just need to toughen up a bit I Spose....

anyhow its all good...I love reading everyones views...I will do my best not to get upset or freak out when you all bite one another LOL

LOVE TO YOU ALL
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Thu Oct 09, 2008 8:53 am

just because i found it interesting especially since it came from CBS news.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/07/politics/fromtheroad/entry4507703.shtml
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PostSubject: Re: So, who watched the political debates? A FRIENDLY discussion   Thu Oct 09, 2008 9:20 am

amainachen wrote:
just because i found it interesting especially since it came from CBS news.

http://www.cbsnews.com/blogs/2008/10/07/politics/fromtheroad/entry4507703.shtml


Thanks, Amain....interesting point of view. I've always loved reading books about The Making of a President and these behind the scene glimpses from individuals are also good reads.
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