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 So, where is it?

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joechgo1

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PostSubject: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 1:27 pm

Thought there was going to be an Adam-bashing thread over here.
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:43 pm

They seem to think I should provide it.


cof
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 2:53 pm

I don't know who they are but I won't be bashing Adam or Clay because I love listening to both.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:17 pm

I don't mind starting one - I don't have anything to say one way or the other but I could maybe make something up....just kidding!!! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:31 pm

Maybe she is waiting until the next time he f's up. BTW, isn't he on Leno tonight?
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 3:50 pm

my e-mail from my space, Adam just posted a new blog, looks like i'm up late tonight.

Tuesday, March 02, 2010
Adam performing on Leno tonight!
..Tune in to NBC tonight, March 2, at 11:35 pm EST to see Adam perform "Sleepwalker" on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:03 pm

CLAYFROMDAY1 wrote:
my e-mail from my space, Adam just posted a new blog, looks like i'm up late tonight.

Tuesday, March 02, 2010
Adam performing on Leno tonight!
..Tune in to NBC tonight, March 2, at 11:35 pm EST to see Adam perform "Sleepwalker" on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno

Did you put that information on a new thread? A lot of people wont see it here on this forum. I'm sure those that like him wont want to miss seeing him on Leno.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:03 pm

CLAYFROMDAY1 wrote:
my e-mail from my space, Adam just posted a new blog, looks like i'm up late tonight.

Tuesday, March 02, 2010
Adam performing on Leno tonight!
..Tune in to NBC tonight, March 2, at 11:35 pm EST to see Adam perform "Sleepwalker" on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno

Sarah Palin is gonna be on, too. I wonder if she will be wearing glitter and rawkin' out to Adam? I won't be staying up for either, but will anxiously await updates. Maybe Jay will have the two of them mud wrestle!!!
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:06 pm

cincy wrote:

Sarah Palin is gonna be on, too. I wonder if she will be wearing glitter and rawkin' out to Adam? I won't be staying up for either, but will anxiously await updates. Maybe Jay will have the two of them mud wrestle!!!

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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Tue Mar 02, 2010 4:10 pm

Janey wrote:
cincy wrote:

Sarah Palin is gonna be on, too. I wonder if she will be wearing glitter and rawkin' out to Adam? I won't be staying up for either, but will anxiously await updates. Maybe Jay will have the two of them mud wrestle!!!


Aww, janey....I don't think I like your tone. (jk)
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 10:57 am

I know that some of you think that Happyjoy and I are joined at the hip, but that is not true. I like her A LOT and I think she has some valid comments and would always defend her right to express her opinion. Opinions should always be respected.

The Kitchen is supposedly a safe zone, where any of us can come and express our opinions and things we want to vent about. Having announced her intent to post her opinions regarding Adam, I can see why people might check here to see what she had to say, but I do find this “waiting in ambush” kind of mentality a bit offsetting. It makes it seem like those who know she is disgruntled and have a differing opinion are just lying in wait to pounce upon her. She is entitled to her opinions and the opportunity to vent about Adam (just as those who vented about Clay were). When she does decide to vent, I hope that anyone who wants to join her will not feel intimidated from joining in and that anyone coming onto her vent to “defend” Adam will be met with the same board moderation as in the Clay vent thread.....i.e., told that she is free to say what she wants and that this is not the place to defend Adam.

Quite honestly, I doubt she feels “safe” in venting here. I know I don’t. Since this IS in her vent thread, please don’t turn this one post of mine into a long drawn-out discussion. I am simply posting it as my opinion and, as such, it is not “debatable” but rather as something others might consider and ask themselves if it might apply to them. Personally, if I find something about Adam that I feel a need to vent about, I want to be able to express that in the same kind of open forum that Clay fans were forced to accept.

So, rather than a discussion of my opinion expressed in this post, all I am asking for is confirmation from Morgan, Basket, Paula or any other mods that she will be given the same consideration and that anyone who happens to agree will not be labeled by the moderators as "haters", "trouble makers", etc.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 11:46 am

I believe Morgan has said that stuff in the "kitchen" (BTW, I love that name) is more "gloves off" and people should know that before taking a seat at the kitchen table with their coffee cup.

On the other hand, I also would THINK that rules about not bashing MEMBERS would hold true here. But I might be wrong.

Happyjoy, if you are reading, please feel free to contribute on this thread or start another thread more specific to any "cause" you wish - as with any other thread likely some with be with your opinion and some will not - which is the nature of many, many threads.

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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 12:31 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
I believe Morgan has said that stuff in the "kitchen" (BTW, I love that name) is more "gloves off" and people should know that before taking a seat at the kitchen table with their coffee cup.

On the other hand, I also would THINK that rules about not bashing MEMBERS would hold true here. But I might be wrong.

Happyjoy, if you are reading, please feel free to contribute on this thread or start another thread more specific to any "cause" you wish - as with any other thread likely some with be with your opinion and some will not - which is the nature of many, many threads.


You know what? I think you are right and the kitchen is a "gloves off" place.

What I think Happyjoy was asking for is a venting thread (like the one for Clay) not an actual Kitchen thread. I tend to call everything up top as "kitchen" because it is a separate room from the bottom....I could be wrong though, but HJ can clarify that when she stops by. It was my understanding that she was looking for a place to vent about Adam.

Thanks for your response, basket. And with that, I'm OUT of this thread.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:02 pm

Joan, I don't get why you're now laying down rules in the kitchen, no less! LOL I just don't understand this at all.

So, happy joy (are you sure you're not the same person?) can insult people on the regular threads and that's okay, but we can't say anything that might upset her in the kitchen?

Weird.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:05 pm

Also, note I said "more gloves off" not just "gloves off" - there is a difference.

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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:16 pm

Another thing I don't understand is why happy joy would have to vent. She's been venting about Adam any chance she's had since AI's last season....and not in the kitchen.

For clarification, not all things at the top are kitchen topics. In fact, if you notice, the most topics at the top deal with American Idol or other television shows. The kitchen is a totally separate section and is hardly ever entered.

If you think I'm "waiting in ambush," I think that's hilarious!
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:26 pm

Quote :
Since this IS in her vent thread,


No it isn't.


It's Joes thread and it was a simple question.


If anyone wants to vent about Adam I suggest they make a thread with an appropriate title. No one is waiting in ambush - I doubt anyone here is going to go all Clayfan on someone who bashs Adam. Adam simply isn't for everyone.


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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:38 pm

I had hoped to stay out of this........

Joe, no....I am NOT Happyjoy. She is someone I do communicate with through email. And she is a very good friend of mine.

As for me, Adam is of no consequence. I liked him on American Idol on some songs, but have been very disappointed in him musically and from a media standpoint since then. As long as the image he projects doesn't offend me or what I believe in, I have no complaints with him....music is a subjective thing; some ya like, others not so much. I'm not going to jump his case when he puts out music I don't like, because I don't expect to like it. On the other hand, if a performance of his music or an interview or a comment he makes is offensive to me, that is when I will comment on him. I try very hard not to criticize his looks or his music though.

Logistically, I guess it would be impossible to have a "vent" thread for Adam because then you might need a vent thread for lots of other performers. So, it might not make sense.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 1:48 pm

Diss thread are strange really

I cant imagine taking the time to vent on someone I know nothing about and if I dont like them then I know little about them.

Bottom line is you diss someone because they caught your attention and you can't get away from the impression they left on you. In entertainment thats great no matter how it happens.

The other possibility is flat out jealousy that Adam has knocked Clay off his AI throne. In many ways he has but in others Adam will never ever be the phenomenon Clay was. The difference I think is Adam can surf the waves of fame coming at him and Clay kind of drowned in them.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:08 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Diss thread are strange really

I cant imagine taking the time to vent on someone I know nothing about and if I dont like them then I know little about them.

Bottom line is you diss someone because they caught your attention and you can't get away from the impression they left on you. In entertainment thats great no matter how it happens.

The other possibility is flat out jealousy that Adam has knocked Clay off his AI throne. In many ways he has but in others Adam will never ever be the phenomenon Clay was. The difference I think is Adam can surf the waves of fame coming at him and Clay kind of drowned in them.


So much for not liking comparisons between Adam and Clay! LOL!

And you may not see you are doing that but check out your use of the words

1, "phenomenon Clay WAS" (he still is BTW) or

2. that Clay has kind of drowned in the waves of fame. That is likely coming from a standpoint of someone who is no longer following Clay that closely, or else you would see that rather than "drowning", Clay has risen above those waves and has become so confident and sure of himself lately (as evidenced by his recent speech this past weekend).

In saying these POSITIVE things about Clay, you will notice that I have not made any veiled comparisons to Adam, nor attributed inflammatory words like jealousy into my comment. I have simply stated a rebuttal to comments/opinions made that I disagree with. In most places, that would be the end of things...but it seems here that by simply replying to this kind of thing, I am accused of "defending Clay", being "obsessed" or whatever. I'd like to be able to say those kinds of things without being accused of having blinders on....that would likely go far to end a lot of the hurt feelings, unnecessary fan wars, etc.

I really DON"T want to participate in this thread, and since the titillating conversation keeps drawing me in, I'm gonna have to stop reading this thread. Hopefully, HJ will come and make her own comments (after I slip into a near-by phone booth and change identities....Just kidding). I hope ya all work it out because I like her and understand what she is feeling and I also like the rest of the people here too.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 2:46 pm

I dont have any problem with comparisons between.

I have problems with the tit for tat stuff - oh yeah well what about . . . .

None of what I said was a bash.


Clay is not current right now and therefore not a current phenomenon. His latest cds have not met or exceeded his first. That's not a bash. Its a fact. He can fill a 3,000 seat venue - who knows maybe 5,000. He's not Michael Jackson, sorry. That's a phenomenon. Could he have been ? I think so but he isn't.

The other comment is fact also. Adam thrives on the fame waves and Clay has panic attacks. Also the media ate Clay alive and still does but Adams negative press only makes him more famous.

Those aren't bashes but to the oversensitive, always defending Clay fan they might appear that way. They are also nothing I didn't say before even in the height of my worship days I was always honest.


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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:35 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
I dont have any problem with comparisons between.

I have problems with the tit for tat stuff - oh yeah well what about . . . .

None of what I said was a bash.


Clay is not current right now and therefore not a current phenomenon. His latest cds have not met or exceeded his first. That's not a bash. Its a fact. He can fill a 3,000 seat venue - who knows maybe 5,000. He's not Michael Jackson, sorry. That's a phenomenon. Could he have been ? I think so but he isn't.

The other comment is fact also. Adam thrives on the fame waves and Clay has panic attacks. Also the media ate Clay alive and still does but Adams negative press only makes him more famous.

Those aren't bashes but to the oversensitive, always defending Clay fan they might appear that way. They are also nothing I didn't say before even in the height of my worship days I was always honest.


~~










So, TODAY, you are fine with the comparisons. Yet, yesterday and earlier this week, you wished the comparisons would stop. I don’t get it. At that time, you thought I was incorrect in wanting to discuss the comparison of people’s reaction to Adam’s statements about Susan Boyle as compared to their reaction to Clay’s bleeding ears comment. Okay, fine....so we won’t go there...that’s not a proper comparison.

But here you are comparing Clay’s ability to deal with the media versus Adam’s, stating that Clay had panic attacks and Adam thrives on it. And that because Clay isn’t a pop star/radio performer that he is any less of a phenomenon. Those are simply your opinions and you are more than welcome to them, but you ARE making comparisons and stating them as facts. They simply aren’t.

I will not compare Clay to Adam. That is what got people upset to begin with....thinking I was comparing the two performers when I was comparing the fans’ differing reactions. But I do want to address your non-factual opinions and express mine in a light that hopefully does not seem like a disparagement of Adam.....these statements only deal with Clay.

Around the time Clay decided to pursue Broadway rather than tour or put out another cd, many fans decided he was not pursuing the kind of career they had hoped he would. Others, like me, were not only thrilled with his decision, but likely became even bigger fans. And now, he is with a new label that seems to deal more with long-term entertainers not necessarily geared toward radio and that, too, is not what some fans want for him. BUT that in no way makes his success on Broadway and the fact that he remains one of the most popular and highest money making contestants ever to come from American Idol less PHENOMENAL.

Clay’s panic attacks may have had more to do with him being torn in many different directions and facing such a personal decision than an inability to ride the wave of the media. I think he has always wanted to be judged on his talents and felt that much of the media’s invasion of his privacy was not really important in the whole scheme of things. Certainly, to many of his remaining fans, it wasn’t important then nor is it now. When you have real talent, you don’t really need to thrive on that kind of thing.

Those may be things you said in the height of your worship days, but then as now, they were strictly your opinions. State them as you will, but fanning flames with constant comparisons between Clay and Adam and labeling any differing opinions as “over-sensitive” shows more lack of your own sensitivity to people who are fans of Clay, fans of Adam and fans of neither or both. But, of course, you can’t see that.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Wed Mar 03, 2010 9:39 pm

geesh

sorry cinc but ummm you sure seem over sensitive to me

Again I dont mind the comparisons - I just hate the he did this so why can't he do this and get away with it stuff. Those comparisons just don't work. But if you want to compare voice, accomplishment, acceptance, etc in a positive tone its all good.

As for Clay, you're right - we are all entitled to our opinion.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Thu Mar 04, 2010 10:56 am

The other day, a thread was closed and a heated debate resulted. At that time, members said they wished the comparisons would stop and before feelings could be hurt or friendships damaged, we were encouraged not to do the Adam vs. Clay comparisons. At that time, the conversation was due to something Adam had said that put him in a bad light. And it was in effect a continuation of a past discussion where the two of them had their back and forth about one person making derogatory comments about another performer....not the in-your-face kind of thread that you are painting it out to be. But, with the understanding that comparisons between the two were not conducive to good will and since the comparison was viewed as incendiary, the topic itself was let go (although a heated discussion about closing/locking threads ensued.)

Now, hurt feelings are to be put to the side? Comparisons are allowed so long as they aren’t the result of some action or statement Adam made, but as long as Clay is painted in the less favorable light by the person making the comparison, it is okay???? And then when I respond to that I am labeled “over sensitive?”

I am trying to back off from the comparisons and simply responding to negative statements about Clay that I disagree with, without comparing him to Adam. I am trying to do that, but it is very hard to do since you continue to make comparisons and say it is okay to do so.

It is either okay or it isn’t. Hurt feelings can go both ways....for Adam fans and for Clay fans. Personally, it doesn’t hurt MY feelings one way or the other, I don’t have a personal connection to either Clay or Adam, but I do have a connection to members of the board who are Clay fans. So I wish you could see that I am not over-sensitive about the actual statements/opinion about either one of them, but I am at least TRYING to be sensitive to the desire not to hurt anyone’s feelings here by engaging in continued comparisons. I am just trying to be fair and wish you could see the double standard.
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PostSubject: Re: So, where is it?   Thu Mar 04, 2010 11:47 am

~
Well first of all I wasn't even here when that problem happened

and second you said yourself the ' members ' said they wished the comparisons would stop - if members want something to stop then they just stop it themselves or avoid it. If I want something to stop I get to take out the big guns and stop it. Don't you just hate that !

We have rehashed the locked thread a thousand times. Threads are locked when someone is unsure of the validity of it or the damage that may ensue. That happened. The thread was unlocked. No new rules came from it. We are a free speech board but we are not a free for all hate speech board.

Again personally for me as a member . . .

I have no problem with legitimate comparisons. I have a problem with trying to keep score and level the playing field. Its the OH YEAH well what about YOUR guy. It's the us against them - your guy against mine stuff. If you can't see that cincy I don't know how better to explain it than that. So I guess we'll keep running around this hamster wheel.


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