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 The Murder of Dr. George Tiller

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abasketcase
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PostSubject: Re: The Murder of Dr. George Tiller   Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:24 pm

Well, this kind of goes to the definition of when can this potental human be called a baby.

Clearly, a child at birth is a baby. And a viable fetus could also be called a baby. My church (bible) says it's a baby at quickening, when the mother feels the baby kick. This happens at about 20-24 weeks. Before that, it is a potential baby: a fetus, or even earlier, a zygote.

I don't define a fetus (eight week conception) as a baby, and I certainly don't consider a zygote (a bundle of fertilized cells) as a baby. The overwhelmingly vast majority of abortions happen between the zygote and the fetus stage, when the number of natural abortions, (miscarriages) happen as well. I myself have had three natural abortions (miscarrages) which were so early, they could actually be closer to a late period than losing a baby. It happens all the time in nature.

But lets take this further, if you think a zygote is a "baby" and oppose the morning after pill, (which doesn't allow the zygote to implant), then what does that make the sperm and the egg? Is that not also potential life?

If you personally feel that a zygote is a baby, then don't have it aborted! But if I, my church, and my country do not consider this a baby, well, I will do what I feel is the best thing for my self, my family. So how can the doctor, again doing something that is not illegal, be a murderer? You can call him that, I guess, but by the definition of the laws of our counrty, he is not.
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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: The Murder of Dr. George Tiller   Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:25 pm

What would happen without intervention? A baby would be born. Just because you cannot prove something is not a baby doesn't mean it isn't.

Think of it this way: shouldn't you absolutely err on the side of life? Which is the greater tragedy, a woman having a baby she is not prepared for (but can put up for adoption) or a woman being told she is just getting rid of some cells but in fact is ridding herself of a baby with a soul.

The law is supposed to protect the vulnerable. Here, the law fails miserably.
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abasketcase
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PostSubject: Re: The Murder of Dr. George Tiller   Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:53 pm

hmmm..this is going to have to be an agree to disagree. I certainly wouldn't ever think to make an attempt to change your mind, and you are not going to change mine.

But I guess the bottom line, where this all started, is the inflammitory talk about a man going about his job, a legal profession, that leads to some crazy going into the church where the man is handing out the parish newsletter, and shoots him dead. In church. In front of the other perishioners. In front of his pastor. In front of his wife and family.
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: The Murder of Dr. George Tiller   Thu Jun 04, 2009 7:58 pm

Aww thanks Renee - me like the pic too
~~~~~~~~
Quote :
The abortionist is murdering babies.

I know its just discussing meaning but actually the abortionist is not murdering anything. Murder is unlawful killing. Unlawful from a government point of view and not a religious one. As long as the abortionist is within the law of the land it is not murder.

That being said, I don't agree with your war analogy. If this is how you feel . . .that the casualties to humanity if no war is fought justifies the deaths in a war, I simply don't see why that does not also apply to the human suffering of unwanted birth.
(note . . . these are not necessarily my personal views - just simple discussion )
One too many babies in a family can cause untold suffering to the family members that exist. They could starve, live in overcrowded conditions, not recieve medical care because of lack of money, etc.
Unwanted babies can be tortured, deprived, abused, neglected and even killed.
Having a baby too young can subject a young girl to a lifetime of low income, possibly abusive surroundings, low self-worth, etc.
Some women seek abortions because thier own health will decline or because thier mental health will suffer or even because they could die in childbirth.
Too many humans on the planet depletes our natural resouces, creates more disease, despair, hunger and death.
All of these casualties to humanity can be alleviated by the selective temination of some human beings . . . just exactly the thinking of what is done in a war.

Now, personally I feel that women can learn to overcome the harships of having one too many babies, or having them too soon, etc -or -there are other choices such as adoption and abortion is simply not the answer. I think there are other ways to control our population, expand our natural resources etc.
But then again, I also feel there are better solutions than war and we are intelligent enough to seek to find them.

But we won't do either. We are frail humans and as such will leave those decisions to power hungry goverment officials and firghtened new mothers with no support systems.
Bottom line is the same as before. Killing is killing. There are no good and acceptable killings. There is such a thing as self defense in hand to hand combat, but for me, there is no excuse for simply killing another human being to avoid some possible consequence. . . . in either scenario.

~
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