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 Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban

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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:34 pm

It sure didn't take him long. Crying or Very sad

Our national shame begins....isn't it wonderful to know that my tax dollars get to pay for the murder of unborn children overseas now too????


http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/01/23/obama-lift-ban-overseas-abortion-funding/
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 12:53 pm

I do understand how you feel Renee but its a slippery slope not a cut and dry issue.

I don't like abortion either. I wish it were never an option but I also dont want to see women in starving countries with no means of birth control and too many mouths to feed already taking desperate measures that leave all of thier other children without a mother.

I dont live in those areas of extreme poverty and its easy for me to sit here and play God and say Thou shalt not abort but I havent walked in their shoes and known without a doubt that feeding this child I carry will starve and slowly kill the children I have in front of me. I have to have compassion for that. I have to see the other side.

I don't know everything about this gag order being lifted but it appears that if abortion is even counseled for any reason in some of these organizations they lose thier funding. That's what they are trying to fix here.

I'm sorry this is hard for you.
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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:02 pm

Thank you for a reasoned response, Morgan. Again, why I love this board.

This is more than difficult. The Catholic Church has taken a stand like never before where this issue is concerned. Obama's "Freedom of Choice Act" has been referred to as an "act of war" with the Catholic Church, and we are called to be a voice.

I guess this means that Catholics aren't going to be sitting back quietly praying anymore. We're being called to stand up and speak out. So I am.

The problem with the scenario you present is that it is a short term response that does nothing but prolong the underlying tragedy: poverty. By allowing the abortions, we "alleviate" the problem by allowing their deaths in utero. We don't have to see the children, therefore, they 're not our problem. And the poverty and the war and the self-serving governments in these countries continue. It hides the real tragedy.

The murder of innocent children can never be considered a "better solution". Our society as a whole has to find the solution to poverty in these nations.

As to our own country, nothing can justify the wholesale murder of 1 million babies a year. Nothing.
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:17 pm

I dont disagree Renee

but I also think the world would see even more widespread hunger, destruction and death if all these babies were born. The human race faces a major problem here and needs to find resolutions. I agree just killing unborn children is not the answer but I also can see where until we find a solution that these children are being born to simply suffer and die. Would you allow your child to slowly die a painful death if you had an alternative ?

There are no easy answers and it will take men with great courage to find them. I won't stand in thier way.
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abasketclayse
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 1:30 pm

Birth control (not abortion) also becomes an issue here - and since the Catholic faith (and I am Catholic and attend mass) also does not really favor birth control it becomes difficult to find really viable solutions.

I will wait and see where this all goes.

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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:53 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
Birth control (not abortion) also becomes an issue here - and since the Catholic faith (and I am Catholic and attend mass) also does not really favor birth control it becomes difficult to find really viable solutions.

I will wait and see where this all goes.

I am Catholic also. I think God would much prefer prevention over murder.

I found it baffling that this was of such importance he made it a priority within a couple of days of taking office.

With the economy in the toilet, businesses going under, people losing their jobs, more and more children losing their health care because their parents no longer have coverage, families losing their homes and this is one of his first priorities.

Sending money to other countries to pay for abortions???
George Bush did more for Africa to save lives than any one person and he didn't even get a thank you. There are so many children living healthy lives today in Africa because of the nets, medication for aids and malaria.

So Obama decides to fund groups that provide abortions in foreign countries. How about using that money for health care for those here in the US that can't afford to go to the Doctor.

Who is giving him this advice? Someone has to be, surely he could find a better way to help people.

Every single time he has been on the tv since Tuesday he has looked lost. He keeps asking someone off camera the answer.

Yesterday he had four executive orders (all to do with the terrorists rights) and he didn't have a clue. He signed one and then he looks at someone and says "Oh, I have more to sign" then after he stumbled around trying to tell us what each one was he says "Well, I have signed these three orders into law" (hello, it was four)

Did you see Obama and Biden swearing in the senior staff? Neither one of them knew what the hell they were doing.

Obama says to Biden that it's his turn to swear some people in and Biden says, "Oh, I have to swear in again?" (he thought he himself was bing sworn in again) then someone off camera explains he is swearing in the staff.

Biden then says "which one is first?" he and Obama look over at who ever it is that is telling them both what to do and they are both told everyone gets sworn in at once.....There were several times that Obama was asked a question and he had to ask who ever it is off camera the answer....

Fine it's all new to them, but there is someone there telling them what to do before they go before the camera's.

Obama should have known if he was going to sign four executive orders there would be four for him to sign.

I'm sorry, the man hasn't a clue. Gitmo didn't have to be taken care of on day one. If he and the rest of his pals in Washington are so concerned about them then bring them to Washington.


Last edited by Janey on Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:50 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 3:59 pm

I'm sure there are reasons for what he does first and I'm sure there are people who think its great as well as those just hoping he tanks to say I told you so.

However you look at it - something has to come first - I'm glad to see him making quick and efficient change. I certainly dont think he can fix the economy in 3 days or would even be happy with him trying. It will take time to do it right.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:05 pm

I have a few questions about this funding for overseas abortions.

1. Does anyone know who these groups are that will be getting this money for these overseas abortions?

2. Which countries are involved in this?

3. How much money are we talking about here?

4. And how do we know for sure that this money will be used for abortions?
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:08 pm

dont have answers for any of it.

You're the info expert Jane - lol - go for it !
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thegiftsthesame



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:25 pm

(1) is "Janey"....."Jane" from the MSN group board ?

and

(2).. who/what "PROMOTES" ? abortion
PROMOTES ????
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:33 pm

I certainly don't want him to tank. But there are way more pressing issues for him to be working on than funding abortions in foreign countries. And, I really don't care about those terrorists in gitmo.

They are holding people responsible for the USS Cole attack and the murder of 17 sailors, and they also have people responsible for 9/11.

My solution is to send them back to whatever country they were caught in and let those Governments deal with them.

If they were caught in Iraq let them put them on trial, same with Afghanistan. They aren't POW's, they are terrorists!

If Iraq could give Saddam and other's due process surely they are capable of doing the same with these guy's.

I bet if given the choice they would rather stay where they are.

Obama needs to get to work for the citizens of the United States and leave those issues that benefit foreign countries until he has taken care of the very pressing issues here.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 4:53 pm

DipsyArkie wrote:
(1) is "Janey"....."Jane" from the MSN group board ?

and

(2).. who/what "PROMOTES" ? abortion
PROMOTES ????

Hi Dipsy,
Yes it's me. Sorry, don't understand question #2
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thegiftsthesame



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 5:13 pm

question #2...clarified...

surely to goodness there is not an agency/company/country
that PROMOTES abortion....

get an abortion/here's a free toaster...

they mean OFFERS abortions...or allows aborotions...
don't they ?

I've never heard of anyone who "promotes" it as the best thing to do
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Fri Jan 23, 2009 7:40 pm

From what I understand there are agencies working in other countries trying to deal with birth control and women's health issues. If that agency discusses abortion their funding is cut off. This mandate erases that order. I don't believe it actually ' promotes ' anything but I'm not an expert on the issue.
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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:24 pm

Well, it's a bit more than that. It's a philosophical point of view. You promote abortion when you present it as an option that is equal to having the child, when you completely remove any moral implication of the decision and present it as an equal choice. Planned Parenthood does this. I know. When I first thought I was pregnant, I wanted a quick test to make sure, and I would drive by the PP every day going to work. I zipped in and had the test. When I filled out the form, I answered the question about "if you are pregnant, what are your plans" with "keep the baby!"

Before the test results came in, I was being told that abortion is an equally available option. I was mortified. I was a happily married woman who would never consider abortion. But what about the girls who are scared, girls who should talk to their parents? Before they can even think about it, they're being told, have the abortion, we'll be right here to help you through it.

That's promotion. And that's wrong.

So to answer your question, Laura....THAT's how you promote abortion.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 6:46 pm

uns **wow**
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:21 pm

I will not get into this deeply, but I am also going to say that I have seen Planned Parenthood first hand (not for me, but for teenagers I have worked with) EDUCATING OVER AND OVER AND OVER teenagers on birth control, safe sex, NOT having sex, etc. For many, many young woman they have also been the only voice who took time to EDUCATE them on options.

Every clinic, every office is different. Surely there are some that are not run like they should be. Surely some appointments have ended in the decision of abortion. BUT the one that I have had experience with does not have a "will do abortions" sign hanging outside their door.

Just wanted to share that as well.

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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 7:34 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
I will not get into this deeply, but I am also going to say that I have seen Planned Parenthood first hand (not for me, but for teenagers I have worked with) EDUCATING OVER AND OVER AND OVER teenagers on birth control, safe sex, NOT having sex, etc. For many, many young woman they have also been the only voice who took time to EDUCATE them on options.

Every clinic, every office is different. Surely there are some that are not run like they should be. Surely some appointments have ended in the decision of abortion. BUT the one that I have had experience with does not have a "will do abortions" sign hanging outside their door.

Just wanted to share that as well.

You know, Lori, if this were the case with PP, I would be donating money to them myself! (I tend to fall away from strict Catholic teaching when it comes to birth control...but then again, so do many priests I've spoken to, so I'm in good company). I have been talking to my girls about sex since they were old enough to start asking questions, and its fallen upon me to give "the talk" to several of their friends who don't have moms. BUT I do know girls who have been taught NOTHING and they invariably get into trouble, so I'm glad there's an education resource.

I'm just absolutely, positively against abortion.

I didn't always feel this way. I used to have the "not for me, but I would never tell another" philosophy. Then someone asked me one question: what about the babies?

After pondering that, I realized I had to change my position.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:20 pm

But do you understand Renee, that I have had positive experiences with PP? That I have seen compassionate people and doctors who educate on more than abortion as an option?

That's all I wanted to be able to express. ht

What I expressed above I have sat in their office and seen with my own eyes and ears on more than one occasion. I am also very close to a woman doctor who is PASSIONATE about children and who volunteers some time at PP for the purpose of making sure that woman who stop there needing guidance get it. With clear, consise education.

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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 8:59 pm

abasketclayse wrote:
But do you understand Renee, that I have had positive experiences with PP? That I have seen compassionate people and doctors who educate on more than abortion as an option?

That's all I wanted to be able to express. ht

What I expressed above I have sat in their office and seen with my own eyes and ears on more than one occasion. I am also very close to a woman doctor who is PASSIONATE about children and who volunteers some time at PP for the purpose of making sure that woman who stop there needing guidance get it. With clear, consise education.

Oh absolutely, Lori, it was your positive experience I was talking about, I wish that more PPs were like that. For me, in Renee's Perfect World, PP would be available *without* abortion, that's all I'm saying.

Hugs to you!
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:02 pm

But it isnt a perfect world and the babies we are speaking about here are born to die a slow death. If the mother doesnt have the option she'll do it herself. I'd like to make a hard line against abortion but I can't. There are times when its necessary to weigh that option and that door should not be closed in starving third world countries especially.

But I'm sure theres much more to this than simply abortion so maybe someone can find out more info on it.
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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:22 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
But it isnt a perfect world and the babies we are speaking about here are born to die a slow death. If the mother doesnt have the option she'll do it herself. I'd like to make a hard line against abortion but I can't. There are times when its necessary to weigh that option and that door should not be closed in starving third world countries especially.

But I'm sure theres much more to this than simply abortion so maybe someone can find out more info on it.

Morgan, I believe that there are some lines that we should never cross. I believe that we should never accept that the murder of unborn children is an acceptable bandaid on the wound that is world poverty. I believe that abortion, especially in these countries, allows people to look away, simply because it limits the number of children suffering. I believe that all suffering due to poverty is reprehensible and tragic and needs to be addressed. But I believe that killing babies is worse.

These are not soulless kittens or puppies. These are human beings. We can never accept their deaths, either before or after being born, as anything less than a tragedy.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 10:56 pm

Well yes it is a tradgedy but it might be a necessary tradgedy - I dont live there - I dont know.

I do know for myself there are times when no one doubts its the best thing to do and when you find yourself in one of those positions with one of your children - perspective changes quickly. There are no exact right and wrongs. I'd like to think there are but as I age I realize there are not.
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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sat Jan 24, 2009 11:13 pm

Renee and I discussed and sort of disagreed but kept our cool!!!!! WooHoo to us!!!! chee

Thanks Renee - that is the point I wanted to get across.

Abortion is such a touchy issue. I did read an article today on the original subject of this thread ....let me see if I can find the quote from the paper........

This is the part that explained it best to me (as quoted from our newspaper - which I'm sure can still be subjective):

His lifting of the prohibition doesn't open up federal funding for abortions, because a federal prohibition on foreign assistance for most abortions remains in place, said James
Salt, the organizing director for Catholics United, which nonetheless opposed Mr. Obama's lifting of the prohibition.

Planned Parenthood praised Mr. Obama, saying that 19 million women worldwide have unsafe abortions each year and 68,000 die of complications.

Previous prohibition had cut off aid in 29 countries, many in Africa. Some areas lost two-thirds of its contraceptive supply and Ghana saw a spike in woman seeking care for post-abortion complications.

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PostSubject: Re: Obama's Society of Death begins - Abortion funding ban   Sun Jan 25, 2009 9:51 am

Kittens and puppies have souls sniff
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