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 I Don't Want to be Like THEM

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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:31 pm

Morgan ya know...I agree.....lets send them some board games and car making kits too.....seriously, alot of countries do not have the entertainment things we do....its so funny when I married my ex, he would be almost like a child at Christmas for so many things....when he got his first cell phone I do believe he got misty eyed LOL it was all kinds of cute.....


anyhow I wish there was an easy solution for peace,....I would have totally been a hippie if I was around back then....peace, love and rainbows.....

the drugs back then man hahahaha seeing purple people and talking mushrooms....wish it was safe to do those things hahaha


Ok I am bad I know drugs are horrible I am just mad I will never see a talking purple mushroom while listening to some funky psycadelic (sp) music....

LOL

IM a trip I know
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joechgo11



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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 8:59 pm

Well, I know I could just NEVER be a hippie....I know, you're all shocked affraid

I reek Conservative what can I say? About the Christianity/killing question. That's a very good question but there is a very real answer.

Christianity is not the same thing as Pacifism, although many Christians are pacifists. Justice is one of the benchmarks of our faith, and sometimes, justice must be achieved through war. It is one of the weaknesses of the human condition, but it is there nonetheless.

The whole Give Peace A Chance thing won't work for the same reason making guns illegal won't work. You make guns illegal, only criminals will have guns. We lay down our arms, we are unable to defend ourselves.

We do NOTHING, evil thrives.

In the war of good and evil, there are absolute battles. That is why God has his archangels. We just have to pray for guidance and hope that we are fulfilling his will.

I will never condone the deaths of innocents, but we didn't start this war. We turned the other cheek where Islamo-Terrorism is concerned since the 70s and the only thing that happened was that the Islamic extremists thrived. They became more and more brutal with their own women. They became more and more brutal with their own countrymen. And they became rabid dogs with their hatred of the United States.

You don't give a hug to a rabid dog. You put him down. How is it loving to let a rabid dog loose on a bunch of innocent people? Isn't it doing God's will to remove the evil?

That is how I reconcile the two forces, but seeing, very clearly, that this is not a political war. This is the war between good and evil.


Last edited by Renee on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:01 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : I misspelled "reek" according to my know it all Miss Dictionary daughter!)
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:07 pm

Renee, disagee, disagree, disagree, disagree.......

This is not a Holy War, this is a war about oil. If you took the oil factor out of the equation, we would not have gone into Iran.


Quote :
How is it loving to let a rabid dog loose on a bunch of innocent people? Isn't it doing God's will to remove the evil?

How is it loving to kill the innocent people along with the rabid dog?


.


Last edited by spongie on Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 9:18 pm

I think the problem comes in on who gets to decide the dog needs to be put down. Remember here also its a decision on a human that needs to be ' put down '. In a perfect world only God decides.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:34 pm

spongie wrote:

This is not a Holy War, this is a war about oil. If you took the oil factor out of the equation, we would not have gone into Iran.

.

We will never, ever agree on that. Ever. EVER.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:35 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
I think the problem comes in on who gets to decide the dog needs to be put down. Remember here also its a decision on a human that needs to be ' put down '. In a perfect world only God decides.

Yes, but we're not in a perfect world. We're in a world where good and evil does exist.

Refusing to acknowledge that only empowers the evil.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 10:40 pm

Yes but Renee who gets to be the judge of what is evil. They believe just as strongly that WE are the evil that must be eradicated. Frankly, their day to day lives are much more free from what is known as sin then ours so who gets to sit in judgement on which is the evil that must be destroyed at the cost of innocent lives.

And what IS their sin ? Murder ?

. . .its now ours too. Which of us is right in the eyes of God.

My guess is we are as guilty of sin as they are.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:04 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Yes but Renee who gets to be the judge of what is evil. They believe just as strongly that WE are the evil that must be eradicated. Frankly, their day to day lives are much more free from what is known as sin then ours so who gets to sit in judgement on which is the evil that must be destroyed at the cost of innocent lives.

And what IS their sin ? Murder ?

. . .its now ours too. Which of us is right in the eyes of God.

My guess is we are as guilty of sin as they are.

On an intellectual, hypothetical level, I understand your logic, but moral relativism is the bane of our society, Morgan. Tolerance so easily hides cowardice, the unwillingness to be disliked therefore we let everything slide.

For our society, we must make these judgements based on our foundations. We hold that liberty is a right ordained by God, and our laws are based on the Ten Commandments. (This is taken from our founding documents, NOT my personal beliefs). We don't believe "they" need to be eradicated. We believe the terrorists, criminals who are intent on killing us, need to be eliminated.

"They" believe an entire nation is "The Great Satan". WE remove dictators then build schools.

And I strongly disagree with this statement:

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Frankly, their day to day lives are much more free from what is known as sin then ours .

Our society may have its flaws, Morgan, but we don't stone people in the streets. We don't mutilate our young women to preserve sexual chastity. We don't behead our enemies on the internet.

We may have sin, but it doesn't compare as a society in whole.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 1:15 pm

Do middle eastern people mutilate their young women ? Thats not a custom I'm familiar with.

We do stone people in the streets, we just have more access to guns and knifes then stones. Its not a daily event in thier lives any more than Matthew Shepard or any of the others here that were beaten to death by an angry mob.

And no, we don't behead our enemies on the internet we just urinate on them, hold guns to thier heads for sport and make them eat thier own excrement for pictures and videos and laughs.

We are not so different, Renee.

And for all our advanced culture and belief that we are superior, , , we divorce, drink to access, take drugs, commit adultery and write books and make movies glorifying it. (myself included ) under the flag of a free society.

They see it as sin that must be eradicated from the earth just as we see them the same way. It simply depends on what side of the fence you stand and what you have been taught to believe. This is what I believe.
God does not think. God does not feel. God does not color his judgement with frail human reason. God simply IS truth and there are no ' holy wars '. . . .right is right and wrong is wrong. No matter who is doing the killing or why . . . its barbaric, its murder, its wrong. He gave us a mind to overcome our weaknesses and to find a way to live in peace. He will accept no less. Could we all die at the hands of our enemies with that thinking ? Of course. . . but there are more important things in the scope of your spirit than death. Think I'm wrong ? Christians grant sainthood to those that make those hard choices.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:36 pm

Quote :
Do middle eastern people mutilate their young women ? Thats not a custom I'm familiar with.


Female circumcision is practiced in some African nations...male circumcision in the western nations.

I've traveled to many different countries, and the term "ugly American" is a real and palpable thing. This is the tendency for Americans to think that their way is the only way. All the foreigners are just your average American wanting the same things we want....a big house, McDonald's, going to Disneyland, and if we just got their pesky Governments and Religions out of the way, and replaced them with Democracy and Christianity, they would be happy just.like.us.

...except....they have their ways, their own cultures, their own customs. Their own historys, their own religion, their own governments....

Iran/Syria/Iraq is the seat of modern history.

Quote :
Commonly known as the "cradle of civilization", Bronze Age Mesopotamia included Sumer and the Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian empires.

The history of Mesopotamia begins with the emergence of urban societies in northern Iraq in 5000 BCE, and ends with either the arrival of the Achaemenid Empire in the 6th century BCE

The Iran/Iraq was the center of culture 6000 years before Christ, and we, a nation a little over 200 years old, it trying to tell them we know how to run their country? What God they should worship? Put a McDonald's up in Baghdad, give them the right to vote and they all be nice freedom lovers just like us?

The presumption is astounding.

A little Russian girl came to the US some years ago as an ambassador for Peace. She had a job to do. The Americans took her to Disneyland and tried to talk her into defecting. We actually thought that this Russian girl would leave her family and everything she knew and loved for the glitz of American culture.

And of course we think that little Cuban boy, Elian, wants to stay in America and not go back to his grandmother, his father, his cousins, his life in Cuba. We have TiVo! We have Game boy and Wii!

stun

Think about it. Would we openly accept another country deciding that the US needs a Monarchy and needs to start worshiping the Hindu God, Shiva?

It works for their country. They have a leader who is benevolent and loves his people. No money going to pesky elections.....Almost everyone has a home, education, a job and food on the table. This country has 90 percent of their countrymen worshiping Shiva, and it is a good religion. The people are happy...so happy!

So happy, indeed, they think that the world would be a much better place if they just practiced the same government and religion, so they send missionaries, then government officials, then troops to the United States to change our ways.

We do not have the bottom line on the best way to make a society work. We have to be open to other religions and cultures even in our own country, which, in a few years, will no longer be a white majority.

(Edited because I kept adding stuff....)


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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:38 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Do middle eastern people mutilate their young women ? Thats not a custom I'm familiar with.

Morgan, how can you not be familiar with this horrendous practice? You've really never heard of it? There are even cases of young women here in America being kidnapped by Middle Eastern relatives and having this procedure forced on them. It's sick. Female Genital Mutilation is practiced mostly in Africa, but is still practiced in the Middle East. If you look at some websites, they will try to say it is strictly a religious observance. That's a lie. It's a sick way of trying to control their women's sexuality by removing the clitoris and sometimes even sewing shut the opening to the vagina except for the smallest exit for menstrual flow. Of course, that means the woman literally has to be torn open by her husband, but what does that matter when the husband can be assured of his wife's virginity?

I am just truly saddened by your vision of American life. If that's how you feel, then it's understandable why you'd be so accepting of a president who seems to want to change the very fabric of our culture. With my world view, and the view of my own country, I see our traditions as worth fighting for, and had hoped for a president who shared that vision.

Our country may not be perfect, and I do believe that as a society we've taken several wrong steps off the righteous path, but I still believe, with all my heart and soul, that the United States of America is still the brightest light shining among the nations. That's worth defending, and I will commit myself to preserving that which I hold dear about my country.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 2:47 pm

spongie wrote:

Female circumcision is practiced in some African nations...male circumcision in the western nations.

I've traveled to many different countries, and the term "ugly American" is a real and palpable thing. This is the tendency for Americans to think that their way is the only way. All the foreigners are just your average American wanting the same things we want....a big house, McDonald's, going to Disneyland, and if we just got their pesky Governments and Religions out of the way, and replaced them with Democracy and Christianity, they would be happy just like us.

...except....they have their ways, their own cultures, their own customs,. Their own historys, their own religion, their own governments....

Iran/Syria/Iraq is the seat of modern history.

Quote :
Commonly known as the "cradle of civilization", Bronze Age Mesopotamia included Sumer and the Akkadian, Babylonian and Assyrian empires.

The history of Mesopotamia begins with the emergence of urban societies in northern Iraq in 5000 BCE, and ends with either the arrival of the Achaemenid Empire in the 6th century BCE

The Iran/Iraq was the center of culture 6000 years before Christ, and we, a nation a little over 200 years old, it trying to tell them we know how to run their country? What God they should worship? Put a McDonald's up in Baghdad, give them the right to vote and they all be nice freedom lovers just like us?

The presumption is astounding.

A little Russian girl came to the US some years ago as an ambassador for Peace. She had a job to do. The Americans took her to Disneyland and tried to talk her into defecting. We actually thought that this Russian grill would leave her family and everything she knew and loved for the glitz of American culture.

And of course that little Cuban boy, Elian, wants to stay in America and not go back to his grandmother, his father, his cousins, his life in Cuba. We have TiVo! We have Game boy and Wii!

stun

I just don't understand this way of thinking Spongie. Who says we want to tell them how to live? I have an idea, why dont' we just tell them to quit trying to kill us, and we'll leave them alone?

Since when is being patriotic okay for every other country, but if you love America, you're "the ugly American"? Of course, they'll still take all of our aid dollars, won't they?

I'm not about to say what someone else wants, except that I would guess they want to be able to raise their children in safety and hope for their futures. I think that's pretty universal.

I find the sentiment that all Americans want to put up a McDonald's in Baghdad so insulting. I simply cannot respect that type of America bashing. And please, quit painting all Americans with the same brush, like all Americans personally tried to get the little Russian girl to defect, or that we all wanted to keep that boy from his family. Those broad brush strokes are unfair, untrue and do nothing to promote discourse.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 pm

Renee wrote:
Morgan Rowan wrote:
Do middle eastern people mutilate their young women ? Thats not a custom I'm familiar with.

Morgan, how can you not be familiar with this horrendous practice? You've really never heard of it? There are even cases of young women here in America being kidnapped by Middle Eastern relatives and having this procedure forced on them. It's sick. Female Genital Mutilation is practiced mostly in Africa, but is still practiced in the Middle East. If you look at some websites, they will try to say it is strictly a religious observance. That's a lie. It's a sick way of trying to control their women's sexuality by removing the clitoris and sometimes even sewing shut the opening to the vagina except for the smallest exit for menstrual flow. Of course, that means the woman literally has to be torn open by her husband, but what does that matter when the husband can be assured of his wife's virginity?

I am just truly saddened by your vision of American life. If that's how you feel, then it's understandable why you'd be so accepting of a president who seems to want to change the very fabric of our culture. With my world view, and the view of my own country, I see our traditions as worth fighting for, and had hoped for a president who shared that vision.

Our country may not be perfect, and I do believe that as a society we've taken several wrong steps off the righteous path, but I still believe, with all my heart and soul, that the United States of America is still the brightest light shining among the nations. That's worth defending, and I will commit myself to preserving that which I hold dear about my country.

Morgan,
Have you honestly never heard of Female Genital Mutilation in Africa by Muslims?

Even Oprah has done stories of women that have had this done to them. She has had women that have had it done to themselves and they are working very hard to have it stopped.

When you hear these women explain the horror of how it is done it just makes you want to throw-up, it's horrible. Little girls being held down by adults while the person doing it uses a rock....It's just so sick.

A couple of seasons ago America's Next Top Model has a girl on the show that had been mutilated, it was so sad to hear her explain how she has never and will never experience the true feeling of Making Love.
There are cases of it being done to girls here in the U.S. and other parts of the world.


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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:06 pm

I'm not painting with a broad brush, and I'm not talking about all Americans. I am talking about "ugly Americans," and I described them in the rest of the paragraph.

I see nothing wrong with being patriotic, just realize that the other nations of this world are just as patriotic and love their country just as much as we do ours....and to realize that our way is not necessarily, practically, and obviously the best way...even for us, sometimes.



.


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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 3:21 pm

Quote :
I have an idea, why dont' we just tell them to quit trying to kill us, and we'll leave them alone?


No one in Iraq tried to kill us. Saudi terrorist were responsible for 9/11. The sanctions against Iraq were working. Saddam Hussein was terrorizing his own people, but he was not bothering us. We feared he had WMD. We heard rhetoric and hate talk, but it was all talk.

I described this scenario to a friend at the time...

You are snug in your home. You are looking out the window. There is a guy in a car parked down the block from your house. You have heard that he doesn't like your family. You have heard that he has a gun. You have heard that he intends to shot your family. Do you have the right to toss a grenade at his car?

My friend (who also supported invading Iraq) said..."Damn straight! I'm protecting my family!" But if she did this, she would be in jail, because you can't do that. You can't attack someone because you THINK they want to attack you first.


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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:42 pm

I love our country and the freedom that we have but the problem with our freedom and ways of life are that ONE Child molesters run wild here and very little is done to really punish them....seriously I am so sorry to say this and I am sorry if anyone here has a family member that may have commited the crime of molesting someone, but I beleive that a few years in jail and being on parole is like a slap on the wrist.....I like the countries that will torture a person for raping a child....is that me being a forgiving Christian ?? nope I am human I have flaws...

TWO
We have freedom of speech, sure its great to say what you like but so many people take it for granted, I dont care what anyone says WORDS can devestate a soul....rumors can ruin someone...even if they are false once it is said then hmmm maybe its true.....happened to me alot


OK I have to add this because I get a little uncomfy when subjects come up about Muslims and their practices...I just wanna make sure that everyone knows NOT EVERY MUSLIM does those things or believes in them...My ex husband Khaled is the most altruistic soul I know...even above Clay and most people in my life....he would never ever hurt anyone, he and his family are Muslim, and the women are not forced to cover their hair in Tunisia, they wear make up, dress how they like, their are women judges, doctors, ect.... do the men in my ex's family want their sisters,wives, daughters, to be respectable? you betcha , but in the end they are free to do as they wish, they are not circumsized, and they choose their own husbands...
Khaled used to tell me about how sad it made him to see people doing horrible things in the name of Islam, but I told him each religion, race, culture, etc have bad seeds....people have killed in the name of Christianity....people have killed in the name of race....its sad but true...

I remember when 9/11 happened, my husband and I went out to dinner for our anniversary...a man walked by and spit by our table....I jumped up and cussed him out. my beautiful gentle husband told me, he understood people were scared and they were just acting out on fear.....he told me the only way to win a war is not to fight in one......I still wanted to attack the man...my husband wanted me to forgive him....so I just wanna make sure you all know...not ALL Muslims, Cristians, Jewish are all the same....

now dont get me wrong haha Khaled is not a fighter unless...you hurt his loved ones...I remember once a man in a gas station, another arabic man had asked me if my boobs were real, I told him not his business and I was married....he said " so what I wanna see your boobs" when I got out to the car I told my husband what was said,,,,thinking he would just be a little upset.....NOPE LOL he walked me back in to the store and spoke to the man in arabic....after a few minutes of my husbands quiet but very direct speaking the man looked at me and said " I am so sorry I am so ashamed please forgive me"

I accepted

we got to the car and I asked my husband what he had said to the man, he took my hand and told me, no man, not himself, not his fellow arabic friends, not one damn man better ever talk to me in any way other than with respect, he said he told the man he should be ashamed of himself for the way he behaved, and that he was giving Muslim and arabic men a bad name....then he told him to go home and pray because he had just said horrible things to a woman and how would he like his mother to be treated like that....then he said he told the man he wasnt a violent man but if he ever disrespected his wife again, in any way, he would whip his ass...

HAHA I laugh...because..well if you had met Khaled you would have known that his mild manners never predicted that kind of rage....he literally wanted to hurt that man, he was all about forgiving someone spitting near us, yet he wanted to fight someone over his wife...LOL He really Loved me...and still does...he is remarried now and has a daughter...but we are friends for life....I miss him so much and if I could turn back time honestly I wouldve made it work somehow....even to live there six months and here six months....but it wasnt meant to be, and if it was, well I really feel like I may have lost my soul mate....but who knows....I still have him, in my heart, the memories...I really hope some day all of you get to meet someone like him...you will never be the same....


ok I am sorry I just blah blah blah'd at you all I just had alot to say and needed to ramble...

I love you guys

Heder
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 10:49 pm

ht Heather, that was so kind of you to share and really, really puts a real prospective on the situation - that no one man represents a race, religion or whatever.

Did your Ex return to his country? You don't have to share, I'm just bored and being curious....
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:02 pm

Its ok Basket I dont mind at all...

Yes Khaled is back home now, he originally went back to take care of his mom, after his father passed away he really wanted to be there for her...he is the youngest son and well they are very close...he really tried hard to make a life here, he and I and he wanted to bring her here, but she wouldnt move here....we prayed over it for months, and decided we had no children, and I wasnt wanting to leave here, and I couldnt hold him here if his heart told him to go home...he really had a rough time here, people were very cruel to him at times....he was just a turn the cheek kind of man.....I wish I could describe his soul better.....PHENOMENAL... anyhow we also had a rough marriage, between all my family issues and my mom and brother being around , living with us, adding their stresses onto us, he was supporting my mom for about 4 years of our marriage...it was rough...

so we made the decision and we got divorced, I told him I loved him but wasnt in love...now I know I lied.....but it was the best thing to do for him...he was drowning here...no happiness, no stability, doors closed in every direction...even if his mom had said yes to come here, he wouldve struggled to support her...

now he has a good job in Tunisia and he met a girl and got married....I am happy for him...I still love him and I will for the rest of my life..but I made the decision and there is no turning back now.........I am at peace with it mostly but sometimes...sometimes I sob with aching and missing him


I remember when I got my kitty sheeko...Khaled was used to cats as only wild animals in Tunisia so of course he was freaked out...he didnt want the cat in the room, in the kitchen, by the table HAHA he was all afraid of this little kitty hahaha

about 2 months later I came home, and found Khaled asleep on the couch and sheeko curled up in the crook of his arm...I woke Khaled up and said ????? he said " he makes this sound when you touch him, like he is happy" sheeko was purring....and that was that THEY WAS IN LOVE LOL

and then about 3 or 4 months down the road, Khaled came home sobbing....it was the second time I had seen him cry (first time was when I miscarried our child...man that was overwhelming but we got through it) ANYHOW.....Im like what is wrong ??? he said "I was driving home from class and I saw a deer on the side of the road, someone had hit him and left him and he was crying, so I called the animal control, but all I could think about was baby sheeko getting out and someone hit him and leave him to cry alone...."

OMG.........................I cried so hard...and I think that was the moment for me...of true unending love....this soul he had....

I miss him
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:26 pm

Heather ht

There are good people and bad people in every country of the world. The atrocities that people in the United States commit on each other, children, members of their own families, animals etc. is unbelievable. We read about it everyday, but somehow many want to turn away and pretend it isn't there. That's why our prisons are so overcrowded.

I still think this is the greatest country in the world. But maybe we should clean up our own house before we condemn others.

I would not want to live anywhere else in the world, and yes our government makes mistakes, but we must support it and try to make changes when necessary.
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:29 pm

Wow, he sounded like a really, really gentle caring soul who maybe was just a little out of his element here.

Woman, you've had a lot of life in your what, 30 years?! I think it is what makes you so wise. love
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Tue Nov 18, 2008 11:39 pm

awww basket thats the first time I have been called wise (i think) without the word ass after it HAHAHA

THANK YOU for asking....I like talking about him...makes him seem a little closer :)

I love you !!

and Pumpkin you are so right !!!

this is a great country and I wouldnt trade it for the world, I just wish we didnt have our own terrorists living among us, as a survivor of childhood sexual abuse, I can tell you...its not easy to forget....or forgive...and it can really damage ones soul...


Im so glad I was strong enough to survive, but many children dont.....it breaks my heart to know that children are being abused every single day and many do not report it out of fear...
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Wed Nov 19, 2008 4:38 pm

Heder, you've opened yourself up in a way I could not imagine. Thank you for that.

Khaled is an amazing man, and you are an amazing woman. I had no idea you had been through so much....

I am proud of you for doing the right thing for Khaled...but at what a price to you. I wish you all the best of happiness. I hope you find another terrific man (if that's what you want! Very Happy ) and have a wonderful life. You deserve it. You are truly a special special lady.ht

(The happy cat story is precious....)ct nt nt
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Thu Nov 20, 2008 10:21 am

you know what......I love you guys............Thank you for loving me and for being my friends..............

Im a very lucky person...

heder
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Thu Nov 20, 2008 3:37 pm

I didnt mean to drop a fiery subject bomb and run but the hotel computer wouldn't allow me to open this thread because of the term genital contained in it. Sorry.

Sooooo where to start.

Renee,

I'm not sure how we got to the subject of mutilations in Africa when we were speaking of a war in the middle east and terrorist acts coming from that area. I can only assume you equate all Muslims with terrorists and therefore incorporate that archaic practice in Africa into your thinking of the war in the middle east. You might want to rethink that a bit. It's not the Muslim religion that we are at war with here.

Again I say murder is murder. Taking another life is strictly forbidden in no uncertain terms in the words of the Lord.

This is done as sarcasm but boy, it sure gets the point across and I agree completely here that this is how God thinks.

From the Onion

God Angrily Clarifies 'Don't Kill' Rule
September 26, 2001 | Issue 37•34





NEW YORK—Responding to recent events on Earth, God, the omniscient creator-deity worshipped by billions of followers of various faiths for more than 6,000 years, angrily clarified His longtime stance against humans killing each other Monday.



God speaks. . .
"Look, I don't know, maybe I haven't made myself completely clear, so for the record, here it is again," said the Lord, His divine face betraying visible emotion during a press conference near the site of the fallen Twin Towers. "Somehow, people keep coming up with the idea that I want them to kill their neighbor. Well, I don't. And to be honest, I'm really getting sick and tired of it. Get it straight. Not only do I not want anybody to kill anyone, but I specifically commanded you not to, in really simple terms that anybody ought to be able to understand."

Worshipped by Christians, Jews, and Muslims alike, God said His name has been invoked countless times over the centuries as a reason to kill in what He called "an unending cycle of violence."

"I don't care how holy somebody claims to be," God said. "If a person tells you it's My will that they kill someone, they're wrong. Got it? I don't care what religion you are, or who you think your enemy is, here it is one more time: No killing, in My name or anyone else's, ever again."

The press conference came as a surprise to humankind, as God rarely intervenes in earthly affairs. As a matter of longstanding policy, He has traditionally left the task of interpreting His message and divine will to clerics, rabbis, priests, imams, and Biblical scholars. Theologians and laymen alike have been given the task of pondering His ineffable mysteries, deciding for themselves what to do as a matter of faith. His decision to manifest on the material plane was motivated by the deep sense of shock, outrage, and sorrow He felt over the Sept. 11 violence carried out in His name, and over its dire potential ramifications around the globe.



"I tried to put it in the simplest possible terms for you people, so you'd get it straight, because I thought it was pretty important," said God, called Yahweh and Allah respectively in the Judaic and Muslim traditions. "I guess I figured I'd left no real room for confusion after putting it in a four-word sentence with one-syllable words, on the tablets I gave to Moses. How much more clear can I get?"

"But somehow, it all gets twisted around and, next thing you know, somebody's spouting off some nonsense about, 'God says I have to kill this guy, God wants me to kill that guy, it's God's will,'" God continued. "It's not God's will, all right? News flash: 'God's will' equals 'Don't murder people.'"


Worse yet, many of the worst violators claim that their actions are justified by passages in the Bible, Torah, and Qur'an.

"To be honest, there's some contradictory stuff in there, okay?" God said. "So I can see how it could be pretty misleading. I admit it—My bad. I did My best to inspire them, but a lot of imperfect human agents have misinterpreted My message over the millennia. Frankly, much of the material that got in there is dogmatic, doctrinal bullshit. I turn My head for a second and, suddenly, all this stuff about homosexuality gets into Leviticus, and everybody thinks it's God's will to kill gays. It absolutely drives Me up the wall."
God praised the overwhelming majority of His Muslim followers as "wonderful, pious people," calling the perpetrators of the Sept. 11 attacks rare exceptions.

"This whole medieval concept of the jihad, or holy war, had all but vanished from the Muslim world in, like, the 10th century, and with good reason," God said. "There's no such thing as a holy war, only unholy ones. The vast majority of Muslims in this world reject the murderous actions of these radical extremists, just like the vast majority of Christians in America are pissed off over those two bigots on The 700 Club."


Continued God, "Read the book: 'Allah is kind, Allah is beautiful, Allah is merciful.' It goes on and on that way, page after page. But, no, some assholes have to come along and revive this stupid holy-war crap just to further their own hateful agenda. So now, everybody thinks Muslims are all murderous barbarians. Thanks, Taliban: 1,000 years of pan-Islamic cultural progress down the drain."
God stressed that His remarks were not directed exclusively at Islamic extremists, but rather at anyone whose ideological zealotry overrides his or her ability to comprehend the core message of all world religions.

"I don't care what faith you are, everybody's been making this same mistake since the dawn of time," God said. "The Muslims massacre the Hindus, the Hindus massacre the Muslims. The Buddhists, everybody massacres the Buddhists. The Jews, don't even get me started on the hardline, right-wing, Meir Kahane-loving Israeli nationalists, man. And the Christians? You people believe in a Messiah who says, 'Turn the other cheek,' but you've been killing everybody you can get your hands on since the Crusades."


Growing increasingly wrathful, God continued: "Can't you people see? What are you, morons? There are a ton of different religious traditions out there, and different cultures worship Me in different ways. But the basic message is always the same: Christianity, Islam, Judaism, Buddhism, Shintoism... every religious belief system under the sun, they all say you're supposed to love your neighbors, folks! It's not that hard a concept to grasp."
"Why would you think I'd want anything else? Humans don't need religion or God as an excuse to kill each other—you've been doing that without any help from Me since you were freaking apes!" God said. "The whole point of believing in God is to have a higher standard of behavior. How obvious can you get?"
"I'm talking to all of you, here!" continued God, His voice rising to a shout. "Do you hear Me? I don't want you to kill anybody. I'm against it, across the board. How many times do I have to say it? Don't kill each other anymore—ever! I'm f***ing serious!" Upon completing His outburst, God fell silent, standing quietly at the podium for several moments. Then, witnesses reported, God's shoulders began to shake, and He wept.

~~~~~~~~~~~

Sorry if you find that irreverant but I believe its exactly what God would say if he were standing in front of us. He'd speak so each person could understand in the simplest of terms. Killing is wrong no matter what the reasons behind it. You're smart people . . . find another damn way !
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PostSubject: Re: I Don't Want to be Like THEM   Thu Nov 20, 2008 5:31 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:

Renee,

I'm not sure how we got to the subject of mutilations in Africa when we were speaking of a war in the middle east and terrorist acts coming from that area. I can only assume you equate all Muslims with terrorists and therefore incorporate that archaic practice in Africa into your thinking of the war in the middle east. You might want to rethink that a bit. It's not the Muslim religion that we are at war with here.

Morgan, please do some research. This is practiced in the Middle East too. I don't usually post things that I'm not sure about.

Also, although I realize we're not at war with a religion, we are at war with Islamic Extremists. That you simply cannot deny. They are the ones who have hijacked a religion and used it for violent means, not us.

And as to your contention that all killing is against God's will, in Utopia you might be right. In today's world, I have to question that judgment. Utopian dreams have to be balanced with the world's reality or they simply leave those who lay down their arms defenseless.
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