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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 7:24 pm

Ok I will Janey.

Really now, some of you are seeing way too much doom in the future. If you don't like Obama fine - vote for his opponent but theres no reason to believe there is only one right vote - or one right way to run the country and that everyone else is an idiot, a despot or an infidel.

I'm sure they are both capable leaders with simply different ideas to solve the same problems. It's possible they might both work. . . . and of course maybe neither of them can fix the problems. But the end of the world as we know it and the doom forecasts are a bit much.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 8:57 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Ok I will Janey.

Really now, some of you are seeing way too much doom in the future. If you don't like Obama fine - vote for his opponent but theres no reason to believe there is only one right vote - or one right way to run the country and that everyone else is an idiot, a despot or an infidel.

I'm sure they are both capable leaders with simply different ideas to solve the same problems. It's possible they might both work. . . . and of course maybe neither of them can fix the problems. But the end of the world as we know it and the doom forecasts are a bit much.
.


I disagree with you Morgan. I see Obama as a man who is going to destroy this country. I was not a fan of Clinton but i wasn't concerned he would destroy the country. I just figured he would take us to a place i wasn't happy with but it would be ok eventually. I don't see it with Obama. So for me there is only one right vote. Just as i'm sure Obama suporters as i have been told believe their vote is the only right one. I have much concern over this guy and it increases daily. now 120k is considered rich. Wow just wow. Big drop from 250k 3 days ago to 120k. Just think where we may end up right after the election. sniff Yes i am scared
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:01 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
Do we have a rundown on all of McCain's not living with him family members too ? I just don't see where thats relavant information. I've never felt family members are ' entitled ' to a person's worth no matter how much they have. Opening your pockets to family members is like opening a drain in some cases and we have no idea if he helps these people or not. They might not even have what they have without him for all we know. Millionaire doesnt mean you can support 15 different people's independent households. Sometimes its better not to help those that need to pull themselves up by thier own bootstraps. That's just life. I'm not going to decide anything based on those things.

Is Obama perfect ? Of couse not.

Is Mccain ? nope not him either.

So we all make our best choice and learn to live with the results.

But I'll stick to political discussions on my choices and not personal matters such as the economics of someone's family members.



this is not just any family member, its his aunt, his beloved aunt, the one he is so close to as stated in his book. Now why would he allow her to live in a very bad run down place in Boston. Surely he could have helped her find another suitable place. Plus he's the one running on the platform of giving your money to the less fortunate. Well he has money so help your own aunt out. He needs to put his money where he wants to take ours and put it. If he isn't willing to help his aunt why should my money be taken and given to assist her and others. Sorry no pass for me.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:04 pm

Paulareenee wrote:
Joe says:
Quote :
One thing that concerns me about Sarah Palin is her stand against a woman's right to choose as well as her opinions about gay people.


This is what gets under my skin about Palin


her opinions are just that her opinions. She can't and won't go against the laws of the land. She personally believes abortion is wrong, its a firmly held belief but there is no way that will be overturned. She also believes in supporting gays rights but not marriage between gays. She can't do anything about the laws in support of gay marriage. So she has opinions just like you and I do and unless laws are passed in support of her beliefs nothing can be done to change it.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:29 pm

So she supports gay rights for what then?

The right to form a union and be a family to which you pass down your inheritance to is about a basic a right as any human being has.

Thats a bit hard for me to accept, sorry. If you dont support a couple's right to be together then you don't support their rights.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 9:56 pm

amainachen wrote:
Morgan Rowan wrote:
Ok I will Janey.

Really now, some of you are seeing way too much doom in the future. If you don't like Obama fine - vote for his opponent but theres no reason to believe there is only one right vote - or one right way to run the country and that everyone else is an idiot, a despot or an infidel.

I'm sure they are both capable leaders with simply different ideas to solve the same problems. It's possible they might both work. . . . and of course maybe neither of them can fix the problems. But the end of the world as we know it and the doom forecasts are a bit much.
.


I disagree with you Morgan. I see Obama as a man who is going to destroy this country. I was not a fan of Clinton but i wasn't concerned he would destroy the country. I just figured he would take us to a place i wasn't happy with but it would be ok eventually. I don't see it with Obama. So for me there is only one right vote. Just as i'm sure Obama suporters as i have been told believe their vote is the only right one. I have much concern over this guy and it increases daily. now 120k is considered rich. Wow just wow. Big drop from 250k 3 days ago to 120k. Just think where we may end up right after the election. sniff Yes i am scared

Amain,
I just read your post and I was a little confused. I had just written the same thing about the figures changing the past few days....LOL

I feel as you do. I wasn't a fan of Clinton either. But, I was never afraid either. Obama does scare me to death. What has happened to the people in this country? He will be the downfall of this country.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Fri Oct 31, 2008 11:04 pm

Ive made up my mind who I am voting for....
some will agree with me some will disagree....
all I will say is this as I have continued to say
"May the best man win, and may God have his hand in the voting"

Good luck and prayers going out to both candidates and their
VP running mates....the job they are taking on is one I dont envy....
I sincerely hope that whoever wins, keeps his country at heart
and does what is best for US and that they pray....

Love to all...good luck on election day, hope the lines arent too long :)

Heder
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:13 am

Amain, You say Palin's opinions are just her own and she can't go against the law of the land.

Why then is everyone so afraid that Obama is going to ruin the country and take us down a path of destruction. The President can't go against the people. That's why we have a Congress and a Supreme Court. Remember when they were calling for an impeachment for Bill Clinton. Even though in this case it didn't work, it can happen if a President is corrupt as some of you seem to think Obama is.

I think everyone should look at themselves and the reason why so much hate is being leveled at Obama. And you can't believe everything you read especially on the internet. I think a lot of people are searching the internet for every negative thing they can find and not even looking at the positive. Such as he was the first African American to be named President of the Harvard Law Review, a very prestigous organization. And the students had nothing but good things to say about his leadership.

I have never been so dissapointed in my party as I have been with the Bush years. His approval rating makes me ashamed I voted for him twice.

Again, may the best man win.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 12:24 am

Hey Joe,
You not talking to me anymore???Sniff. Sniff....You know I adore you.

I am a little confused by the post above that has a few quotes within quotes...lol So I don't know what is yours.

Are you concerned about the gay issues and how Sarah Palin views that and abortion? I think McCain and Palin are good people, I can't see them ever discriminating against anyone. McCain is a very compassionate man. A

Palin isn't going to change any laws concerning either of these issues.
They are just her personal opinions, that's all.

The biggest issue at the moment with Gay's rights is of course the right to marry. I am sure it's like many straight couples, some want to marry and some don't. I know my brother and his partner have no interest in getting married.

They have always made sure to see an Attorney to take care of their concerns as far as property and other stuff should something happen to one of them. Which is smart for even a married couple to do.

My brother is so against gay couples adopting children. And that's his right to feel that way. I am for it.....

Abortion is against my religion, but it doesn't give me the right to tell someone else it's wrong for them. It's still wrong in my opinion though. What probably disgusts me more than anything are these late-term and partial-birth abortions. It's too horrible for me to even imagine how awful it is.

It also saddens me to think of all the couples out there that would give anything to have that baby. Many of these couples will pay for all the expenses, and help the girl out in any way they can. The girls can chose the parents, they can have open adoptions, they can make arrangements to ask the parents to agree to sending photo's of the baby, or even to visit as a friend once in a while. There are so many options other than abortion.

Palin and McCain wont be the first President and VP to disagree with Abortion. The same issue is brought up every 4 years and it turns out to be such a non-issue. The abortion issue is not number 1 on their list of things to do.

I think both of these issues will be a State by State Issue when push comes to shove. And I think that is how it should be.
Why there are ever late term abortions is beyond me. I don't have a problem if it's to save a mother's life. But for someone to wait until after the first 3 months to abort a baby is just terrible.

Especially in this day and age. Women can find out if they are pregnant now without ever going to see the Doctor. They can find out very soon after conception. So why take 6 or 7 months to decide to have an abortion.....Makes me sick!
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:39 am

mypumpkin58 wrote:
Why then is everyone so afraid that Obama is going to ruin the country and take us down a path of destruction. The President can't go against the people. That's why we have a Congress and a Supreme Court. Remember when they were calling for an impeachment for Bill Clinton. Even though in this case it didn't work, it can happen if a President is corrupt as some of you seem to think Obama is.

I think everyone should look at themselves and the reason why so much hate is being leveled at Obama. And you can't believe everything you read especially on the internet. I think a lot of people are searching the internet for every negative thing they can find and not even looking at the positive. Such as he was the first African American to be named President of the Harvard Law Review, a very prestigous organization. And the students had nothing but good things to say about his leadership.

I have never been so dissapointed in my party as I have been with the Bush years. His approval rating makes me ashamed I voted for him twice.

Again, may the best man win.

Pumpkin, someone far greater than I explained my fears perfectly:


Quote :
"The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -- Thomas Jefferson



Let's take Bush off the table. He really has nothing to do with this election, or at the very least, he shouldn't. John McCain is not George Bush, in fact, he's gone up against Bush several times during the last eight years.

So why do I fear an Obama presidency? Because he chose to surround himselves with Marxist professors (his words, not mine). He has repeatedly talked about wealth redistribution. He feels there needs to be "redistributive justice" where race relations are concerned. All of this is going to be at the cost of our freedoms. Another Jefferson quote that is QUITE appropriate:

Quote :
"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them."

Obama has already promised he's going to be taking money from some and giving it to others. His stated income limit that defines "the rich" has ALREADY dropped from $250K to $150K, and he's not even elected yet. Do you have any doubt that number will reach $100K, which will effect Californians in a huge way, probably more than others, because many Californians have to earn that much just to afford a basic, not a fancy, home.

There is much to fear. Socialism is already creeping into our world with this damn bailout. He already controls much of the media; you think not? Why won't the L.A. Times run the video of him toasting the Palestinian fundraiser Rashid Khalidi.

The price of freedom is eternal vigilance. Too many Americans are just too happy to look the other way. And THAT is why I'm afraid. I hope and pray that first, John McCain wins on Tuesday. If that doesn't happen, then I hope and pray that the American People become vigilant in a way that hasn't happened in a very long time, and watch every move Obama makes. Of course, if we enter the third level of hell and have a liberal majority in the house, senate and a liberal President...and the liberal media sugarcoating his every move...then all the vigilance will unfortunately have to evolve around undoing the harm they WILL do to this country.
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Morgan Rowan
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 10:10 am

This country has always taken taxes and redistubuted it in sevices. Whats the big fear of Obama doing it ? Because he talks more about taking care of people instead of in economic terms ?

I dont get the fear. And there is much to be learned from Marx. Its a common philosophy to study and in many ways a beautiful ideal. The problem is it doesnt work well with human nature but there is still a lot to be learned from the philosophy of those that have taking care of those that haven't. What would you prefer ? Dog eat dog ? Survival of the fitessest ? Cleaning out the gene pool ? I don't get the fear of taking higher taxes from the rich to bail out the struggling.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:01 am

I'm sorry Renee,
I don't think we can take Bush off the table. And as you said McCain went against Bush several times in the last eight years.
Several meaning more than two but not many. (definition)
I don't want to see 8 more years of the same.

I may be in the minority, but I think the wealth should be spread around a lot more. I know a lot of wealthy people do donate to charity etc. (Bill Gates for instance). But so many more don't and have the attitude it's mine and I am keeping it. They forget how they made their millions and billions from the poor who have no choice. I don't know how those oil executives sleep at night knowing how many are suffering. And I don't buy their excuse they need the money for research. Some yes, but not all.

It is insane how much money some people have and still want more. You can only live in one house at a time and drive one car at a time. And you can't take it with you. Of course some (athletes and entertainers) can go through a whole lot of money foolishly in a short period of time. I won't even mention the Paris Hiltons in the world.

I am still a Republican voting for Obama. My biggest fear during his campaign was when he was considering his running mate and the Govenor of my state PA Gov. Rendell was on the list.

I completely trust Obama will make a good President and will surround himself with the most qualified people. No one can do it alone.
I could end up being wrong. It's happened before. But I shudder to think of 4 more years of the same.

Also I am awaiting the time when we elect a women President.
But it has to be the right woman, not just any woman. I did not support Hillary and (sorry Debbie) Palin in no way.

Good luck to everyone's candidate on Tues. and may the best man win.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 1:34 pm

Morgan Rowan wrote:
This country has always taken taxes and redistubuted it in sevices. Whats the big fear of Obama doing it ? Because he talks more about taking care of people instead of in economic terms ?

I dont get the fear. And there is much to be learned from Marx. Its a common philosophy to study and in many ways a beautiful ideal. The problem is it doesnt work well with human nature but there is still a lot to be learned from the philosophy of those that have taking care of those that haven't. What would you prefer ? Dog eat dog ? Survival of the fitessest ? Cleaning out the gene pool ? I don't get the fear of taking higher taxes from the rich to bail out the struggling.

Morgan,
The fact that you, and other's don't get the "Fear" concerns me. How can you argue that he wants to "take care of people" when he doesn't take care of his own family.

You are also ignoring the fact that the middle class began at anyone making under 250K, now it's down to 120K. It went from 250 to 120 in a matter of days. Do you honestly think he is being truthful? Just wait, it's going to came down to people earning a whole lot less. Maybe it will come back down to the original 42K he voted on.

He has been caught in lie after lie. The people he calls "his friends" should be all the warning you need.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:06 pm

This "redistribution of wealth" is BS IMO. Everyone works hard for their money. Why should rich people be be punished because they make a lot of money? What happened to getting a job and making your own money?

Obama's plan might actually help me because I'm one of those poor people. I have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. But, I don't want someone else's money. I prefer to make my own way, hard as it is.

Get the economy in shape, make more jobs for people, but taking hard earned money from one person to give to another, RIDICULOUS No
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:19 pm

neworleans_lady wrote:
This "redistribution of wealth" is BS IMO. Everyone works hard for their money. Why should rich people be be punished because they make a lot of money? What happened to getting a job and making your own money?

Obama's plan might actually help me because I'm one of those poor people. I have to work 2 jobs just to make ends meet. But, I don't want someone else's money. I prefer to make my own way, hard as it is.

Get the economy in shape, make more jobs for people, but taking hard earned money from one person to give to another, RIDICULOUS No

Sure the rich can afford to pay more taxes. But that's not the point. The point here is that Obama began at 250K and in just a few day's it's down to 120K.

Eventually it wont be the "rich" paying more, it will be the middle class. And lets not forget, not all rich people are mean, most of them are very generous when it comes to donations for all types of causes.

They also provide jobs for a lot of people, from hiring drivers, nanny's, grounds keepers, maids, cooks, and lets not forget the charities depend on those with money to donate.

If they have to cut back you can be sure they aren't going to cut back on themselves it will be cutting back on staff and probably what they normally give to help other's.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 3:38 pm

But Orleans its always been so. Everyone pays taxes and those taxes pay for those who need help along with infrastructure, etc, etc.

The only decision is at what percentage a person pays. I'm with you and against about simply taking from the rich to give to the poor but I'm also understanding that the rich can afford big tax breaks on many things that the poor can not. I'm all for leveling the field a bit because the rich get that way at the expense of the little guy. You don't see them saying lets make an affordable car with less profit to the rich or an affordable house, heck even a roll of toilet paper costs plenty because someone has to turn a bit profit on it.

I also agree taxes arent the answer - but maybe they are a temp band aid while the answers are sought so I'll go with it.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sat Nov 01, 2008 11:39 pm

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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:31 pm

hmm I've changed my mind again! Sorry. This is so nerve-wracking this election!
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:39 pm

Joe,

You are so darn honest!!!! love u
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sun Nov 02, 2008 6:42 pm

LOL....My Mom always told me I was too honest for my own good! LOL
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sun Nov 02, 2008 9:17 pm

Joe, ht

Neither candidate is perfect. All we can do is hope the winner will do his best to fullfill most of his promises. He will have to have help from congress.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Sun Nov 02, 2008 10:34 pm

joechgo1 wrote:
LOL....My Mom always told me I was too honest for my own good! LOL

You know that's funny, everyone tells me I'm the same way. All my friends keep telling me to stop being so honest, and I had a woman that was my boss at my CASA internship who said I was too honest with my advisor at school.

Joe you and I are so much alike it's scary lol..
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:01 pm

Thomas Jefferson said,
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:04 pm

jbdramey wrote:
Thomas Jefferson said,
"A government big enough to give you everything you want is strong enough to take everything you have.

What a great quote and so very true!
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PostSubject: Re: Undecided   Mon Nov 03, 2008 7:06 pm

joechgo1 wrote:
LOL....My Mom always told me I was too honest for my own good! LOL

Joe, there is nothing wrong at all in honesty. It's the one thing I admire in a person. You can never be too honest, it's a terrific quality in any person.

Good for you, and don't ever change!
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